Question:
Dear everyone I apologize for the tone of my letter. On rereading it it didn’t come out as intended. I had the same thing happen years ago with my ex husband and at the time thought he was a monster and only now do I see how I saw him as all powerful and me as all weak. I never even thought it possible that he had his own feelings and insecurities. I learned other stuff too. I re read my letter a couple of times. Sometimes it sounds ok to me and other times it sounds very condescending to men. E-mail is funny. If I can see different tone in my own posting I suppose everyone else does too. Anyway Im sorry. I would like to explain what I meant but at the moment I dont think I could do any better than that first post. I am at the moment unemployed and going off paxil. I dont mind as I wanted to stop it anyway but because of money am going off a little faster than I would have. My brain has turned to mush and keeps having funny spasms. my eyes are sore or funny and I cant walk properly. Not because of my legs but because of ,my eyes. I usually just lurk but since I cant leave my room I have been posting a bit the last few days. Posting with a mushy head is probably not the best way to post. Anyway I hope you will let me rephrase what I said in the last post in a better way when I am a better person. I read this lasts about 2 weeks. Does anyone know if its 2 weeks from when you start to cut down or 2 weeks from when you have your last pill love Moira
Response:
Posting with a mushy head is probably not the best way to post.
Oh I don’t know, it has certainly worked for me at times. Kiesha
Response:
Dear everyone I apologize for the tone of my letter. On rereading it it didn’t come out as intended.
That happens. Luckily we’re a real relaxed group here, so we’ll let you get away with it – this time. (That’s a joke.) I know what you meant about letting your partner know s/he’s needed, sometimes we forget to do that, especially since many of us feel so dependent, and when we get better we are so into being not dependent that it may bother our partners. I hope that’s clear. <snip I am at the moment unemployed and going off paxil. I dont mind as I wanted to stop it anyway but because of money am going off a little faster than I would have. My brain has turned to mush and keeps having funny spasms. my eyes are sore or funny and I cant walk properly. Not because of my legs but because of ,my eyes. I usually just lurk but since I cant leave my room I have been posting a bit the last few days. Posting with a mushy head is probably not the best way to post.
Since I’m going through my own Paxil stuff right now I can sympathize. My brain seems to be total mush, with just enough periods of clarity to make me realize how mushy it is. Anyway I hope you will let me rephrase what I said in the last post in a better way when I am a better person. I read this lasts about 2 weeks. Does anyone know if its 2 weeks from when you start to cut down or 2 weeks from when you have your last pill
Probably from when you take your last pill. I hope you’re not going down too fast. Some people take a few months to wean themselves. love Moira
Lori from SF Not one shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
Response:
I am just in need of someone to listen….. That’s what we are here for Vicki.. I have been having problems with my husband and he has now informed me that
my "problem" has caused great distress on our relationship.
Could be that he is using your *problem* as an excuse. Maybe he is not able to face what the real problems are. I am actually quite happy with myself. I know I am not "cured", but I am
in much better shape than I was a long time ago. I hope you can understand how much of an
accomplishment these are for me. My husband was well aware of my problems
BEFORE we were married. <parts snipped It is possible that he feels you don’t "need" him anymore. Whereas before, there was probably a lot of dependancy on him for support. Now look how far you have come to take care of yourself. How can I make him
understand? Have you tried conselling? (marriage, that is.) A good one can sometimes explain in better terms, to each partner, what the other is trying to say. I feel like I have grown so much ….it is sooooo depressing to
hear that I am such a disappointment. Can anyone understand me??
You are NOT a disappointment! Believe in yourself, we do 
Lee "welcome to my madhouse….HAHAHAHA"
Response:
I am just in need of someone to listen….. I have been having problems with my husband and he has now informed me that my "problem" has caused great distress on our relationship. I know that I am not that *bad*. I was much worse years ago before I met and married him. I am actually quite happy with myself. I know I am not "cured", but I am in much better shape than I was a long time ago. Before I met my husband I was so "out of touch" with the world. Since then, I have come out of my house, gotten therapy, started a great med that works for me, gotten married, had 2 kids, and I do all the necessary things that goes along with these (such as shopping, driving, taking my daughter to school, going out with friends, etc.). I hope you can understand how much of an accomplishment these are for me. I have literally gone from being a child living with my parents to being a responsible adult living in my own home with a family to take care of. My husband was well aware of my problems BEFORE we were married. He seems to have NO sympathy (not that I am looking for any) or understanding for what I have been through. How can I make him understand? I feel like I have grown so much ….it is sooooo depressing to hear that I am such a disappointment. Can anyone understand me?? able to understand me. Vicki
Response:
I am just in need of someone to listen….. I have been having problems with my husband and he has now informed me that my "problem" has caused great distress on our relationship. I know that I am not that *bad*. I was much worse years ago before I met and married him.
<snipped to save space with a family to take care of. My husband was well aware of my problems BEFORE we were married. He seems to have NO sympathy (not that I am looking for any) or understanding for what I have been through. How can I make him understand? I feel like I have grown so much ….it is sooooo depressing to hear that I am such a disappointment. Can anyone understand me?? able to understand me.
Hi, Vicki – I’m loath to comment on people’s relationships as they’re a minefield, but I certainly sympathise with you over this. It must be terribly hard for someone who has never experienced pathological anxiety to have even the remotest sense of what it feels like and so I suppose we should always try to understand their blank incomprehension, just as much as we expect them to try to understand our irrational fears. How you get your feelings across, I really don’t know, as so much depends on the individual people concerned but I do *very* much believe in communication – cliched though that is. I think the best advice has to be ‘keep on talking’ as it’s when talking stops that things get set in cement, IMO. If the difficulty lies in him thinking you are just ‘giving in’ to it and that you are terribly rare in suffering this problem, perhaps a few days spent reading ASAP might show him you’re not or, if he’s not a NG sort of person, perhaps one or two of the books or articles on the subject? Good luck with what is, I know, a horrible problem. — Gary Cooper
Response:
: I am just in need of someone to listen….. : : I have been having problems with my husband and he has now informed me that : my "problem" has caused great distress on our relationship. I know that I : am not that *bad*. I was much worse years ago before I met and married him. : I am actually quite happy with myself. I know I am not "cured", but I am : in much better shape than I was a long time ago. : for any) or understanding for what I have been through. How can I make him : understand? I feel like I have grown so much ….it is sooooo depressing to : hear that I am such a disappointment. Can anyone understand me?? <snipped for space Vicki, Yes I do understand, and I sympathize with you. I have the same problem with my spouse but it is getting much better. I MADE her read information about PD. Her deal was she thought I was lazy and used PD as an excuse not to do ‘whatever’. This really bothered me because "I" know I am not…..so, I went to work on trying to educate *her* about PD and all it’s symptoms. I think her thought process was that an actual panic attack is the only symptom of PD. As Gary and Scott A. mentioned I think that education is the best way to get someone to understand this disorder, short of having it yourself. I am going to copy a post in this post from Arthur Anderson. I hope that is OK with you, Arthur. I know this post helped me to show my wife how bad PD is and is very interesting to me also. Arthur is busy climbing pyramids, so… he might not even see this 
(ASAP joke, Vicki) """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" " """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" As I always say, the best remedy for families (or anyone else) that "pick apart" anxiety/panic sufferers is EDUCATION!!! Learn as much as you can about our disorders so that you can *correct* people who start to make terribly naive criticisms. Some Useful Facts: 1) Troops who have experienced wartime combat situations and years later developed panic disorder have described panic attacks as *worse* than facing death in combat. As someone who has faced death myself in different situations, I know damn well that panic attacks can be worse than facing death. 2) The suicide rate for panic disorder is higher than the suicide rate for clinical depression; demonstrating that many people would rather die than spend their life suffering from panic attacks. 3) Despite psychological screening, the military has learned that even the bravest of people have limited endurance for tollerating prolonged exposure to fear. As a result, military research is exploring the application of medications (like benzodiazepines) deal with prolonged fear. 4) Chemicals naturally produced by the body (especially CCK4) have been shown to induce panic in *anyone*. Clearly, certain forms of panic disorder have a biological basis (are medical problems) and are NOT an issue of cowardice, weakness, or poor psychological character. 5) Severe panic attacks *can* cause a person to faint or become temporarily paralyzed. Attacks can last hours or even days in severe cases, and the disorder can last years if not appropriatly treated. Anyone who doubts the potential severity of anxiety and panic disorders should be made aware of the above facts. Any humane person would have to agree that no one should be expected to simply tollerate panic disorder. Best Wishes, Arthur """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" " """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" I Love that post. Thanks Arthur! As the other guys suggested, having a spouse read ASAP could be helpful. I know it helped Kelli (wife), she even posted! be : able to understand me. : : Vicki Nothing to be sorry about, Vicki, we are all in this together and rambling, among other things is what ASAP is all about. Take Care…. and Welcome to ASAP! Scott Hampton
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am just in need of someone to listen….. I have been having problems with my husband and he has now informed me that my "problem" has caused great distress on our relationship. I know that I am not that *bad*. I was much worse years ago before I met and married him. I am actually quite happy with myself. I know I am not "cured", but I am in much better shape than I was a long time ago. Before I met my husband I was so "out of touch" with the world. Since then, I have come out of my house, gotten therapy, started a great med that works for me, gotten married, had 2 kids, and I do all the necessary things that goes along with these (such as shopping, driving, taking my daughter to school, going out with friends, etc.). I hope you can understand how much of an accomplishment these are for me. I have literally gone from being a child living with my parents to being a responsible adult living in my own home with a family to take care of. My husband was well aware of my problems BEFORE we were married. He seems to have NO sympathy (not that I am looking for any) or understanding for what I have been through. How can I make him understand? I feel like I have grown so much ….it is sooooo depressing to hear that I am such a disappointment. Can anyone understand me?? able to understand me. Vicki
Hi again, My sympathies for your marital problems. It’s hard to figure out what’s going on from a single paragraph. Maybe part of why he’s bringing this up now is because you HAVE changed and maybe that’s unsettling to him. Although it sounds like he’s saying your ‘problems’ are causing stress on the marriage, this sounds unrealistic because the anxiety has always been a part of your relationship. It may be that he needs to know that you still need him even though you are so much better. It also may be that he feels that now you are better, you can handle making improvements to your relationship. I could be totally off base, so these are just things to consider. Keep in mind that this is a NORMAL part of living, people without anxiety have these same relationship problems and have these same horrible feelings of disappointment. It might be worthwhile to do some marriage counseling. I understand most religious organizations offer some form of counsel ling, mostly free and you don’t even have to be a member of the church, synagogue, temple, whatever. Good luck. Lori from SF Not one shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She needed his problem more than she knew. Sometimes these people go on to marry another alcoholic. I wish you would have quoted what you are responding to. while this is indeed true about SOME women, it seems kinda generalized. Some ARE caught in a cycle about the people they choose. I know the feminists wont agree with me but I believe in always letting your husband know how much you need him. Not in a dependant childlike way but in a mutual dependant way. He is probably more dependant on you than you on him. Well, I AM a feminist and while the above is kinda true – being needy is a fine line. It does have to go both ways – and I prefer the word *partnership*. but I think men like to be needed. Even if only to open the jam jars. My husband considers me quite able to open jars and handle such minor problems. Is the sharing between people of the big things that makes the difference. Then we are equals and partners/peers. Ask his advice Compliment him Let him know how much he has helped your recovery Help him feel good about himself HE should be doing that for you as well. Under their tough images men are the sweetest, deep feeling , heroic, insecure creatures on earth The men I have come to know have been far from insecure. Insecurity makes for many problems in a relationship. There is constant reassuring to be done. Men ARE deep feeling – but this portrayal makes it look like they are some subspecies that needs *our* (as women) stroking. Don’t buy hat, nope, I sure don’t. Gwen
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Of course we need each other, but not because I’m a helpless female and he’s an inarticulate gompf. Lori from SF Not one shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
Response:
vicki i feel for you youve done so much he probably has a fantasy of a relationship and its not matching he needs to see whats there and not whats not lynn
Response:
She needed his problem more than she knew. Sometimes these people go on to marry another alcoholic.
I wish you would have quoted what you are responding to. while this is indeed true about SOME women, it seems kinda generalized. Some ARE caught in a cycle about the people they choose. I know the feminists wont agree with me but I believe in always letting your husband know how much you need him. Not in a dependant childlike way but in a mutual dependant way. He is probably more dependant on you than you on him.
Well, I AM a feminist and while the above is kinda true – being needy is a fine line. It does have to go both ways – and I prefer the word *partnership*. but I think men like to be needed. Even if only to open the jam jars.
My husband considers me quite able to open jars and handle such minor problems. Is the sharing between people of the big things that makes the difference. Then we are equals and partners/peers. Ask his advice Compliment him Let him know how much he has helped your recovery Help him feel good about himself
HE should be doing that for you as well. Under their tough images men are the sweetest, deep feeling , heroic, insecure creatures on earth
The men I have come to know have been far from insecure. Insecurity makes for many problems in a relationship. There is constant reassuring to be done. Men ARE deep feeling – but this portrayal makes it look like they are some subspecies that needs *our* (as women) stroking. Don’t buy hat, nope, I sure don’t. Gwen
Response:
Hi Vicky I wanted to say I agree with Lee. He married you because of your problems not in spite of them. We dont always know we do this. As in recovering alcoholics whose wives complained for years. The moment he gives up she leaves him. She needed his problem more than she knew. Sometimes these people go on to marry another alcoholic. Men dont always like to show how insecure they are. They prefer to be angry. I know the feminists wont agree with me but I believe in always letting your husband know how much you need him. Not in a dependant childlike way but in a mutual dependant way. He is probably more dependant on you than you on him. I suppose I should have rather said how much you love him, rather than need him but I think men like to be needed. Even if only to open the jam jars. Independence is wonderful. If you are secure in your self you can then move on to inter-dependency. We do after all, need each other. Ask his advice Compliment him Let him know how much he has helped your recovery Help him feel good about himself Under their tough images men are the sweetest, deep feeling , heroic, insecure creatures on earth love Moira – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been having problems with my husband and he has now informed me that my "problem" has caused great distress on our relationship. <parts snipped It is possible that he feels you don’t "need" him anymore. Whereas before, there was probably a lot of dependancy on him for support. Now look how far you have come to take care of yourself.
Response:
moira schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Vicky I wanted to say I agree with Lee. He married you because of your problems not in spite of them. We dont always know we do this. As in recovering alcoholics whose wives complained for years. The moment he gives up she leaves him. She needed his problem more than she knew. Sometimes these people go on to marry another alcoholic. Men dont always like to show how insecure they are. They prefer to be angry. I know the feminists wont agree with me but I believe in always letting your husband know how much you need him. Not in a dependant childlike way but in a mutual dependant way. He is probably more dependant on you than you on him. I suppose I should have rather said how much you love him, rather than need him but I think men like to be needed. Even if only to open the jam jars. Independence is wonderful. If you are secure in your self you can then move on to inter-dependency. We do after all, need each other. Ask his advice Compliment him Let him know how much he has helped your recovery Help him feel good about himself Under their tough images men are the sweetest, deep feeling , heroic, insecure creatures on earth love Moira I am very glad you’re not my wife…
Philip Peters
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