Question:
Has anyone figured out if our panic episodes are brought on by our frightening thoughts, or if the frightening thoughts are brought on by the panic episodes? Does anyone know for sure? Can we know? Any responses would be appreciated.
Response:
Has anyone figured out if our panic episodes are brought on by our frightening thoughts, or if the frightening thoughts are brought on by the panic episodes? Does anyone know for sure? Can we know?
My worst PAs used to come in the middle of the night, just about 2 a.m., out of a sound sleep. I hardly think that I was thinking about stuff that might cause a PA. (and yes, I do remember my dreams and they were not related to the PAs) I have had others, however, during the day that my thoughts can definitely make worse or not so bad depending. So, I would say that for those of us who have some pretty clear biochemical problems, the PAs can certainly come without any thoughts preceeding them. BUT, our thoughts during the PAs can certainly make them worse. Just IMO, Jen
Response:
Hi Bill, All I know is..The " What Ifs" are killers…For me, if I have a situation where I know I will be uncomfortable in, then I usually avoid it ( avoidance behavoir) I learned , after my first few panic attacks, this behavoir.. Therefore. I became Agoraphobic… Long story. It has been a long road, 10 years now for me, and I still feel like I live in a prison. The upside is: I CAN go to work, and function normally.. I can, be happy and laugh, I can live, as near to " normalcy, as possible.. I can do many things! For me, IMO, the frightening thoughts bring on the panic… Hope this helps… Stephanie :-)
Response:
Bill asks: <<Has anyone figured out if our panic episodes are brought on by our frightening thoughts, or if the frightening thoughts are brought on by the panic episodes? Does anyone know for sure? Can we know? IMHO, I agree with Stephanie; panic or anxiety attacks follow frightening thoughts. But anxiety brings on the frightening thoughts in the first place. When I’m having problems with anxiety, a toothache becomes that I *know* my teeth are going to fall out of my jaw at minimum, and that I’m going to immediately die from it at maximum. If I’m not having a problem with anxiety; it’s just a toothache and it will be better in the morning. I think "our" general anxiety level is always higher than the norm and takes less stimulus to elevate. Maybe we are also more imaginative, sensitive and impressionable than most people 
Laurel
Response:
Has anyone figured out if our panic episodes are brought on by our frightening thoughts, or if the frightening thoughts are brought on by the panic episodes? Does anyone know for sure? Can we know?
Interesting, I’ve been thinking about this too and observing myself. I’m sure it is different for different people, but I find for me the anxious feelings come, and then I accomodate them by having the thoughts. The physical feelings (racing heart, sweating, butterflies in the stomach, etc) lead to the frightening thoughts for me rather than vice versa. It feels like I’m feeling anxious so I have to justify it somehow by thinking upsetting thoughts. Just my personal observation. C.
Response:
Bill, Hi all! I’ve been reading the posts here for several weeks and this is my first one. I was treated for PAs for the first time 18 yrs. ago and have lived "panic-free" all that time. For some unknown reason, they are back. I remember my mind absolutely racing many times in the valley of "what-ifs" before the actual first blown attack. Pacing or doing something different helped at first …then I had one in the middle of the night. For me, I think MY negative thoughts brought the panic on..then once the panic occurs (in a physical way) the thoughts just get worse and more negative. It’s a vicious circle. I’m not sure we’ll ever know the REAL answer…and I agree with laurel, I do think panic happens to very sensitive, deep thinking, creative, feeling types. Lynn 
Response:
Has anyone figured out if our panic episodes are brought on by our frightening thoughts, or if the frightening thoughts are brought on by the panic episodes?
In panic disorder, it’s the latter. If it’s panic attacks in the context of a phobia, PTSD, etc., it can be the former. My personal experience: I have tried (extensively!) to rationalise my panic attacks, to say "I am disturbed by this, this is why I have panic." It never works! When I figured this out, I determined that I wouldn’t start avoiding situations or places just because I had a panic attack in that situation or place. For example I remember having an attack at a party and thinking that maybe I should stop going to parties. I decided to see if it was really true And then I thought maybe that my general anxiety level was what "caused" my attacks. So I watched to see when they happened, and it turned out that sometimes I was feeling anxious, but sometimes I wasn’t. I’m pretty anxious a lot of the time, so of course I sometimes have panic attacks when I’m already anxious. I finally decided that I wasn’t going to mull over it too much. I do feel the way Jen does, though, that if I am already in a bad state of mind, and then I have an attack, it feels much worse. It’s that much harder to just drift through it. -elizabeth
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