Question:
Hi Pam! You’re welcome. MzPami <mzp…@aol.com> wrote in article <20000407135653.29182.00000…@ng-cd1.aol.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "mugwort" mugw…@attglobal.net > >DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV. > >Here is the goverment page: > >http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm > Thanks, mugwort : ) > Pam
Response:
Doug <g…@execpc.com> wrote in article (snip) Wow! Very interesting to hear from one who’s been through it. Congratulations on toughing it out!
Response:
On 07 Apr 2000 18:02:25 GMT, mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>From: g…@execpc.com (Doug) >>I ended up suing and won a negotiated settlement that gave me all I >>had been asking for. Even though meetings and presentations were a >>part of my job, I got accommodation to not present, to not talk, to >>have another person speak on my behalf, etc. General communications >>could be handled however I felt most comfortable and I was permitted >>to add to my accommodation list when needed. >>This was a bitter fight that lasted over a year, and I only recommend >>the legal route if you can’t work something out through HR (or ana >>dvisor, if in school). Even though I won, the victory was somewhat >>hollow because of the hell I went through during the lawsuit. >>However, suing did permit me to do my job and believe it or not, I >>actually got a substantial promotion a couple of years later based on >>merit. >>Doug >Doug >How on earth did you manage to hang in there for a year! Were they hostile? I >don’t think I could’ve have handled that. >Pam
I was backed into a corner. We were downsizing; I got a lower review than I should have because of my sp; there were 9 of us in my dept. at that time; there were only going to be jobs for 5 after downsizing. So here I was competing with people who got better performance appraisals and it began looking like I could be out of a job. This left me with a couple of shitty alternatives. Either fight for my current / downsized job or go out and try to start all over after being with my employer for over 20 years. I wasn’t sure I could even make it through a new job interviewing process at the time. Ultimately I decided to fight for my job because I felt it was the right thing to do, that I had been wronged, and I was going to do what I could to make things right again. Interestingly, no one was hostile during the legal process. The Co. ended up "giving" me one of the new jobs (similar to what I was already trained in) and nobody involved in the lawsuit (mainly HR and my old boss) talked to me at all. After a while it dawned on me that I was in a protected status because of the law suit. I will say that if I had to do it again, I would. Doug
Response:
>From: g…@execpc.com (Doug) >Interestingly, no one was hostile during the legal process. The Co. >ended up "giving" me one of the new jobs (similar to what I was >already trained in) and nobody involved in the lawsuit (mainly HR and >my old boss) talked to me at all. After a while it dawned on me that >I was in a protected status because of the law suit. I will say that >if I had to do it again, I would. >Doug
I still think it’s one of the bravest thiings I ever heard someone doing (with SP) Pam
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MzPami <mzp…@aol.com> wrote:
: How on earth did you manage to hang in there for a year! Were they hostile? I : don’t think I could’ve have handled that. Some of us with SP can develop some amazing bravery to try to compensate. Consider how I flew 160 miles in my car to go to Doug’s doctor. I thought nothing of the flight itself, what with doing 85mph much of the way and holding the helm with one hand. The bravery comes with the territory. That’s how I developed what I call "shy fighter jock syndrome". — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4968238 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
On 08 Apr 2000 17:09:57 GMT, mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: >>From: g…@execpc.com (Doug) >>Interestingly, no one was hostile during the legal process. The Co. >>ended up "giving" me one of the new jobs (similar to what I was >>already trained in) and nobody involved in the lawsuit (mainly HR and >>my old boss) talked to me at all. After a while it dawned on me that >>I was in a protected status because of the law suit. I will say that >>if I had to do it again, I would. >>Doug >I still think it’s one of the bravest thiings I ever heard someone doing (with >SP) >Pam
Pam, You’re sweet to say that, but I think maybe desperation oughta stand alongside the bravery. Doug
Response:
That’s interesting. Did you have to be officially diagnosed by a Doctor in order to use the Americans with disabilities act?
Response:
On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 22:23:01 -0500, "league" <lea…@datacruz.com> wrote: >That’s interesting. Did you have to be officially diagnosed by a Doctor in >order to use the Americans with disabilities act?
In so many words, yes, my attorney and I felt we needed to prove conclusively that the disability exists. I don’t think that the law specifically says that you need a doctor’s diagnosis to qualify for a disability though. My official diagnosis was / is panic disorder with agoraphobia and that’s the criteria we based the case on – plus the discrimination of course. My doc knows my problem only exists in social situations, but he still sticks by that diagnosis, maybe because I have panic attacks in social situations. Are you thinking of filing a legal suit? Doug
Response:
>From: "mugwort" mugw…@attglobal.net >DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV. >Here is the goverment page: >http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm
Thanks, mugwort : ) Pam
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: g…@execpc.com (Doug) >I ended up suing and won a negotiated settlement that gave me all I >had been asking for. Even though meetings and presentations were a >part of my job, I got accommodation to not present, to not talk, to >have another person speak on my behalf, etc. General communications >could be handled however I felt most comfortable and I was permitted >to add to my accommodation list when needed. >This was a bitter fight that lasted over a year, and I only recommend >the legal route if you can’t work something out through HR (or ana >dvisor, if in school). Even though I won, the victory was somewhat >hollow because of the hell I went through during the lawsuit. >However, suing did permit me to do my job and believe it or not, I >actually got a substantial promotion a couple of years later based on >merit. >Doug
Doug How on earth did you manage to hang in there for a year! Were they hostile? I don’t think I could’ve have handled that. Pam
Response:
On 7 Apr 2000 03:49:50 GMT, "mugwort" <mugw…@attglobal.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV. >Here is the goverment page: >http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm >If you are a working SpruceGuy, check with your HR department for a summary >of the ADA and how your company implements it. >Your university/college should also have information readily available. >Different places implement it differently. Basically ADA means that your >company has to make reasonable accomodations ( not TOO expensive & you >still need to perform your job) if you have a doctor’s note that says you >have SP (or whatever). >For instance, Andi posted about his boss ranting about Andi not being >sociable enough to suit the boss. Under ADA, Andi could have gone to HR, >identified himself as an SP, and then his boss would have had to leave Andi >be. If the boss continued to hold Andi’s lack of sociablity against him, >Andi could have gone back to HR & eventually sued. All Andi wanted was to >be left the hell alone, which is certainly not an expensive accomodation. >Neither is refusal to chit-chat in anyway detrimental to actually getting >your work done!! >Note, however, that an SPic probably couldn’t use ADA for a sales job. The >essence of sales is working with people. You couldn’t be a blind pilot, >right? Your disability can’t affect the primary function of your job. >My own company has a self-identification program. Basically, they just >take your word for it, you figure out what you need from the company to do >your job, and you work it out with your boss. If the boss doesn’t want to >be accomodating, then work with HR and provide doctor’s note etc. >Figure out what you need to work around the SP in order to get your >job/studies done. They will need you to tell them, because the whole >concept of SP will probably bewilder them. >I haven’t identified myself as SP. I don’t know what effect it would have >on a career. Theoretically, none, but in reality??? >Good luck >M
Hi M, I’d just like to add a few comments to yours which are very good. You don’t have to be able to perform all of your job to receive accommodation. The law says that if you can perform the "essentials" of your job with or without accommodation, your employer must provide it if the cost is reasonable. Reasonable cost is based on the financial status of a Co. and go so far as actually hiring another person or constructing apparatus, etc. to help in accommodating disabled workers. If your request to HR fails, as mine did after repeated requests (even got downgraded performance reviews because of my sp and was told that was the reason), you can file a claim through your state. The process is designed to allow employees to handle the legal stuff themselves, but I don’t recommend it. Hire an attorney and let him handle everything for you. Assuming you win, you will be reimbursed for all your legal costs and may receive punitive damages to boot. Most attorneys will work with you on the cost in the unlikely event that you lose. I ended up suing and won a negotiated settlement that gave me all I had been asking for. Even though meetings and presentations were a part of my job, I got accommodation to not present, to not talk, to have another person speak on my behalf, etc. General communications could be handled however I felt most comfortable and I was permitted to add to my accommodation list when needed. This was a bitter fight that lasted over a year, and I only recommend the legal route if you can’t work something out through HR (or ana dvisor, if in school). Even though I won, the victory was somewhat hollow because of the hell I went through during the lawsuit. However, suing did permit me to do my job and believe it or not, I actually got a substantial promotion a couple of years later based on merit. Doug
Response:
Someone posted a message a couple of days ago that said that SP qualified under the Americans with disablities act. Is this true? How can I get proof of this? If it is true, what does that mean exactly on the job and in the classroom, etc.?
Response:
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV. Here is the goverment page: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm If you are a working SpruceGuy, check with your HR department for a summary of the ADA and how your company implements it. Your university/college should also have information readily available. Different places implement it differently. Basically ADA means that your company has to make reasonable accomodations ( not TOO expensive & you still need to perform your job) if you have a doctor’s note that says you have SP (or whatever). For instance, Andi posted about his boss ranting about Andi not being sociable enough to suit the boss. Under ADA, Andi could have gone to HR, identified himself as an SP, and then his boss would have had to leave Andi be. If the boss continued to hold Andi’s lack of sociablity against him, Andi could have gone back to HR & eventually sued. All Andi wanted was to be left the hell alone, which is certainly not an expensive accomodation. Neither is refusal to chit-chat in anyway detrimental to actually getting your work done!! Note, however, that an SPic probably couldn’t use ADA for a sales job. The essence of sales is working with people. You couldn’t be a blind pilot, right? Your disability can’t affect the primary function of your job. My own company has a self-identification program. Basically, they just take your word for it, you figure out what you need from the company to do your job, and you work it out with your boss. If the boss doesn’t want to be accomodating, then work with HR and provide doctor’s note etc. Figure out what you need to work around the SP in order to get your job/studies done. They will need you to tell them, because the whole concept of SP will probably bewilder them. I haven’t identified myself as SP. I don’t know what effect it would have on a career. Theoretically, none, but in reality??? Good luck M
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