Trauma – PTSD

Question:

how can anyone expect me to behaviorally treat my condition if the condition itself prevents me from doing so?

I’ve often wondered that myself. I just got that book in the mail, "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy", and I’m sort of stuck in chapter two, as I’m supposed to write down every depressed thought I have, label it according to a system I can’t remember, and then figure out what the thought should have been. I’m way too tired to do that. I think I’ll invent a new therapy, and call it COCT (Cat-Oriented Cognitive Therapy). This is where every time you have a depressed or anxious thought, you tell it, "No! Bad thought!" and kick it off the chair. Then, when it jumps back on the chair, you repeat the process, until it realizes it can’t win, and stalks off to lick its fur. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it? most diseases remain uncurable. Medicine has only one true ground of cure in treating diseases and that is slowly eroding microbial sensitivity to antibiotics for bacterail invasion. Surgery can effectuate some cure rates but most surgical procedures incur remission rather then cure.   Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?  It is equally hard to create and maintain a rational philosophy about any belief systems you hold. If you do not relinquish irratiional structure of belief then you will maintain emotional distress as a logical conclusion to the idea that you are chronically ill and can do nothing about it. Developing a strategy that includes equilibrium of life is the best approach to treating any chronic malady-anxiety is a malady of being, biology, culture, society, instinct, survival, and definition. You can deal with each of these and more,so called, anxiogenic factors with relatively good success. I have many ills that plague my life but I do not allow them the luxury of plaguing my ability to live .

You must have an extraordinary power of will. By placing yourself into the classification of being chronicaly ill, sick or dysfuntional, your only consequence of emoting to that, is with depression and a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. You become your label. You don’t have to. The choice is yours to make, but I can personally vouch that the merits of dealing with and managing ones issues (anxiety may not necessarily fall into the definition of disease), you can lead a joyful and wonderful life.

I don’t understand how depression can be a disease for which there is no cure, AND at the same time the result of behavioral choices which can be changed to the point where life becomes joyful. If a person who’s been diagnosed with depression is living a joyful and wonderful life, then they’re not depressed anymore.  Isn’t that a cure?   If not, what is it? How can depression be both incurable and curable? And if some people have major depression, yet do not acknowledge that they have it in order not to label themselves as "depressed", aren’t they in denial about their condition?  Is it or is it not the right thing to do to face reality, even if it means accepting the unpleasant reality of having depression? It’s all such a bundle of paradoxes. I’m a very intelligent woman. I’ve read more than I care to about depression, its causes, its effects, and its treatments. I’ve been in therapy with three different, credentialed therapists, most recently with a CBT specialist, over the past nearly 20 years, and on meds for about the past 15 — various meds, alone and in combinations. I have practiced meditation. I have worked a 12-step program. Yet I still am nowhere near living a joyful and wonderful life because I can’t *remember* to use behavioral tools AND I find it terribly hard to try.  I’m told that my memory problem, my mental focus problem, and my (I’m having trouble finding the right word for the "feeling it’s pointless to try") are symptoms of depression. Well damn it — how can anyone expect me to behaviorally treat my condition if the condition itself prevents me from doing so? Can you explain that to me?   Why am I still sick? Will I always be sick? If I stop telling myself I have depression, am I on the road to recovery or am I being dishonest with myself? Deirdre   I would recommend – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you seek out a qualified certified cbt therapist with a good reputation and seek treatment with them. Getting yourself stuck into the paradigm that you are sick and must make the best of it, only leads to frustration and pain, now you will have two problems, frustration about having an anxiety disorder and frustration about your frustration, anxiety over your anxiety-you add secondary levels of irrational thinking to a primary one-I feel anxiety and cannot stand it it is awful-you can stand it, you are standing it, it is not more then 100% painful it can only be at most 100% painful 100% of the time and it is not. Your choice is clearly to learn ways to manage your life and how you respond to it, and how to change your behaviors and emotions as a part of a comprehensive mode of therapy and medications-then you will no longer see yourself as a sick person-but a person who may have sickness, who may have any number of chronic conditions that require methods of management — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron.  I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years.  I’m not a good candidate for CBT.  I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried.  I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times.  {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs. (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P

Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?

After 30-plus years of this, I am pretty resigned to always having panic disorder and anxiety.  Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

Up until recently, yes. I would get very angry. Now I try not to think too much about it anymore, because it only aggravates me and I need to channel my energy in more positive directions and enjoy life as much as I can. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

No, I can keep some distance from it, and try to look at it objectively. It is hard to know that it probably won’t go away, and will probably get worse, but I know there’s a root to all of it, and I can keep digging and one day hopefully find it. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I agree with Ron’s reply.  It’s been way too long for me to feel there is a lot of hope.  Also as for my driving phobia I feel it is too deeply engrained into my mindset to ever find myself driving alone on the interstate again.  Not being negative, only  honest. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?  Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? There is for me no going back. Far too much was affected by it to ever be put "right." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I accept myself as being incurable and I know I shouldn’t feel that way. There’s that word – shouldn’t.  :-)  I don’t make the best of it, though, usually.  I have very high anxiety today for absolutely no reason other than I didn’t fall asleep until after 1:00 last night.  Don’t know why, just couldn’t sleep.  I always feel it the next day, high anxiety, and I don’t like it.

I hate not having at least 8 hours sleep.  My anxiety is always much worse when I don’t get enough sleep.  Lack of sleep will put me in a constant higher than normal state of anxiety.  It somehow feels different than normal anxiety, but I don’t know how to describe it. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I agree with Ron’s reply.  It’s been way too long for me to feel there is a lot of hope.  Also as for my driving phobia I feel it is too deeply engrained into my mindset to ever find myself driving alone on the interstate again.  Not being negative, only  honest. smiles, Elise

Although I do have a little hope, I think I know exactly what you mean.   I don’t recall a time in my life when anxiety wasn’t a daily factor, and going back to my first childhood memories, it’s now been about 40 years that anxiety has ruled my life.  Who knows what I felt in the first 5 years of life? Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?

most diseases remain uncurable. Medicine has only one true ground of cure in treating diseases and that is slowly eroding microbial sensitivity to antibiotics for bacterail invasion. Surgery can effectuate some cure rates but most surgical procedures incur remission rather then cure.   Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

 It is equally hard to create and maintain a rational philosophy about any belief systems you hold. If you do not relinquish irratiional structure of belief then you will maintain emotional distress as a logical conclusion to the idea that you are chronically ill and can do nothing about it. Developing a strategy that includes equilibrium of life is the best approach to treating any chronic malady-anxiety is a malady of being, biology, culture, society, instinct, survival, and definition. You can deal with each of these and more,so called, anxiogenic factors with relatively good success. I have many ills that plague my life but I do not allow them the luxury of plaguing my ability to live . By placing yourself into the classification of being chronicaly ill, sick or dysfuntional, your only consequence of emoting to that, is with depression and a sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. You become your label. You don’t have to. The choice is yours to make, but I can personally vouch that the merits of dealing with and managing ones issues (anxiety may not necessarily fall into the definition of disease), you can lead a joyful and wonderful life. I would recommend you seek out a qualified certified cbt therapist with a good reputation and seek treatment with them. Getting yourself stuck into the paradigm that you are sick and must make the best of it, only leads to frustration and pain, now you will have two problems, frustration about having an anxiety disorder and frustration about your frustration, anxiety over your anxiety-you add secondary levels of irrational thinking to a primary one-I feel anxiety and cannot stand it it is awful-you can stand it, you are standing it, it is not more then 100% painful it can only be at most 100% painful 100% of the time and it is not. Your choice is clearly to learn ways to manage your life and how you respond to it, and how to change your behaviors and emotions as a part of a comprehensive mode of therapy and medications-then you will no longer see yourself as a sick person-but a person who may have sickness, who may have any number of chronic conditions that require methods of management — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron.  I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years.  I’m not a good candidate for CBT.  I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried.  I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times.  {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs. (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P Di

You bet I know where you are coming from. To top it off, I’ve been known as a "hard head" too. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I think that’s what I was trying to say too, Ron.  I hate to sound so cynical, but that’s the true way I feel and have for years.  I’m not a good candidate for CBT.  I have a lot of trouble turning negative thoughts into positive ones and I’ve tried.  I’ve only been able to do it a few times out of 1,000 times.  {{{{{Ron}}}}}

this is NOT what cbt is-anyone who expouses to be a pollyanna is not a cbt therapist Di That is the reason that 3 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist said that I wasn’t a candidate for their CBT programs.

the only people who find it difficult to use cbt are those who simply do not use it, or their doctors or therapists don’t know how to apply it beyond a textbook they read three years ago in the toilet (((((((((((Di)))))))))))))) — Ron P Di You bet I know where you are coming from. To top it off, I’ve been known as a "hard head" too. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow.

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?  Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I accept myself as being incurable and I know I shouldn’t feel that way. There’s that word – shouldn’t.  :-)  I don’t make the best of it, though, usually.  I have very high anxiety today for absolutely no reason other than I didn’t fall asleep until after 1:00 last night.  Don’t know why, just couldn’t sleep.  I always feel it the next day, high anxiety, and I don’t like it.  I don’t feel I’ve learned anything having panic, anxiety, ag or PTSD either.  Guess I feel more down today than I thought I did.  Sorry TJ. Hugs, Di

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?  Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition? — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?  Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

There is for me no going back. Far too much was affected by it to ever be put "right." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you think you will ever feel the way you used to before your panic/anxiety started, or do you accept your illness as incurable and make the best of it?  Is it hard for you to remain philosophical about having a chronic condition?

I told my therapist a few weeks ago that I felt like giving up on therapy and meds because after 15 years of them I have to admit I’m unfixable, so what’s the point of wasting resources on me when they could be put to better use on others who are more fixable? We talked about it, and we came up with this idea: I am not a broken machine. I just have parts that need to be maintained and used often enough to prevent rusting up. Meds and therapy and other tools, like meditation, are my maintenance program: without them I would likely break down and become utterly useless. I will probably always have comorbid depression and anxiety to varying degrees. It’s okay if I need to rant or cry or pout sometimes about this condition, but I need always to come back to accepting this fact. One thing it’s hard for me to remember is accepting reality on its own terms doesn’t equal liking it.  So when I can let go of the expectation of being cured, and use my tools the best I can to ‘maintain the machine’, I can have a measure of serenity. Not pleasure or ecstacy or joie de vivre — for those I have to look elsewhere. I will likely never feel the way I did back in the day when the depression and anxiety were less intense and only occasional. This pisses me off, but there’s not one damn thing I can do about it. I try to maintain a sense of humor — that helps. What really pisses me off is that this condition — comorbid depression and anxiety — causes me to worsen it by its very nature. Did that make sense? So, yeah, I am able at times to be philosophical about it. Sometimes I just get too tired of fighting and I crawl back into bed and whimper for an hour or a week. Now I’m looking forward to reading what others have written.   How about you, TJ? Sla

Question:

hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.  its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future.   hope everyone is doing alright russ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

hey all,   while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT,

well the concept that the brain has a hard time with two powerfuly conflicting thoughts is a part of cognitive functioning but cbt would actually have challenged the what if thought from the get go  and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.

it is palliative but not elogent-challenges to your thinking are more elegant and long lasting its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky!

yes we are-if we can create panic we can create tranquility-if we can feel depressed we can feel joy, we would not know the difference between them if we couldn’t experience either anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future.   hope everyone is doing alright russ  ..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.

what if you did have a panic attack in the chair? a- having panic in the dentist chair b-I must not have panic in the chair how awful it would be and so embarassing c-you feel panicky about panicking d- what if I had one? What would happen? I would certainly feel crummy, my heart would pound, my hands sweat and I would irrationaly feel trapped even though I am not-so what else would happen? Would it truly be awful if I needed a few moments to stretch, compose myself or walk about-would it be awful if I told the doc I feel like throwing up all over him and to install temps in the holes and filll them next week-if I confessd I had a panic disordeer would they think less of me, would I care? Would they be correct that I am less a person? I don’t have to have anxiety in the chair, I may not have any, but if I do, it is a pain in the ass but not the end of my being. I will do what I can to calm myself until this procedure is done and that’s that. Next time make sure the anesthetic doesn’t contain epinephrine, dentists like using that for many reasons but it can increase anxiety for about 5-10 minutes initially until your body metabolizes it I remind my dentist all the time how close the proximity of his balls are to my hands when he works my mouth-he is very very careful! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

i’ve had a bunch of CBT. i think that has really helped alot.  i still have alot of work to do with my panic and anxiety in the face of my current life situations.  i wish i had my self control too! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ve never been able to stop a PA. I wish I had your self-control… — Doug

Hey Doug, just keep telling yourself that the PAs cannot kill you or harm you in any way.  Truly accepting this fact as 100% true has cured me of attacks after 4 years.  It really works – but you have to really believe it, not just tell yourself that you believe it.  I think I must have had 20,000 panic attacks before I truly accepted this fact, but I did accept it in the end.  And now I am recovered from them I am glad to say.  :-) — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

wow, i wasnt aware of that. its good to know.   thnks for the info margro….also thanks for the  clear headed perspective.

Dentists keep epinephrine-free local anesthetics around for people who have heart and stroke problems. The most common epinephrine-free dental anesthetics are named Carbocaine and Citanest. You may also want your dentist to put a big red "NO EPI" stamp on your medical record so you’ll never have to go thru another anesthetic-triggered panic attack in the chair again. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.  its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future. hope everyone is doing alright russ

Whew. So many people afraid of the dentist. I think I finally found something I’m NOT afraid of that a lot of other people are. It has helped me in that I know my dentist personally.  He’s an elder in the church, and I used to attend home group in his home, so I know him well, he knows me and the whole family well.  I think I’d be in the same shape as everyone else if I didn’t know my dentist.  He’s a wonderful guy, even if he did choose that profession, LOL. Actually, my ex husband married a dentist.  I like her very much. She couldn’t have been nicer to my kids when they were growing up.  First time my kids visited after they got married, she called me. She was worried because she kept trying to find a vegetable my sons would eat. I told her potato chips LMAO.  They went through that faze.  I thought that was pretty special that she did that.  Showed me what she is made of. I will say.. what I avoid (if that is possible) is the hygenist.  She’s extremely nice (everyone in my dentist’s office are wonderful). But she always hurts me. I have one tooth that is sensitive.. ONLY when she works on me. NO other time. Last time she cleaned my teeth, I asked her to not even touch that one. She didn’t. Sally (who has had more dental work than all of you combined. You name it, I’ve had it done. If you think dentists are bad, try getting an abcessed tooth.) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ve never been able to stop a PA. I wish I had your self-control… — Doug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey all,   while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help. its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future. hope everyone is doing alright russ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.  its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future.   hope everyone is doing alright russ

You got through it, and you survived!  <applause You certainly have my sympathy, Russ.  I haven’t been to a dentist in years because of the awful anxiety I go through. Of course, now my teeth are breaking off and falling out in pieces.  There’s a price for everything. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My Dental phobia got a lot worse after seeing Marathon Man. Dentists must be sadists at heart… — Doug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dental phobia is almost universal. Of course, the average person fears the needles and drilling; others are clautrophobic and don’t like to be "pinned down" and have instruments stuffed into their mouth. However, their flight-or-flight response doesn’t go overboard, so they don’t get panic attacks. Folks with panic disorder, or just plain panicky, anxious people who don’t get the full-blown attacks, "overreact" to the common dental phobia. The mind, being excessively anxious, starts to worry about much more than the needles and clautrophobia–they worry about the excessive overreaction itself, and/or get into silly obsessional thinking such as "I’m going to die from this medication" or "the novocaine will not work and I will feel intense pain," but only because an *overly* anxious mind breeds irrational thinking. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

good stuff. i think i may just tell them that i have PD and may have to  get up for a little while. Hi, Russ, My dentist knows I have a panic disorder.  He’s always conscientious to ask me if I’m doing okay.  This works for me with him knowing. smiles, Elise — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky!

Dental phobia is almost universal. Of course, the average person fears the needles and drilling; others are clautrophobic and don’t like to be "pinned down" and have instruments stuffed into their mouth. However, their flight-or-flight response doesn’t go overboard, so they don’t get panic attacks. Folks with panic disorder, or just plain panicky, anxious people who don’t get the full-blown attacks, "overreact" to the common dental phobia. The mind, being excessively anxious, starts to worry about much more than the needles and clautrophobia–they worry about the excessive overreaction itself, and/or get into silly obsessional thinking such as "I’m going to die from this medication" or "the novocaine will not work and I will feel intense pain," but only because an *overly* anxious mind breeds irrational thinking. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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::glad you saw the ruby throat. i’ve been seeing and hearing all sorts of ::warblers out there I`ve been hearing lots of warblers too but the only kind I`ve seen is the ‘black-and-white’ one. I did see a Scarlet Tanager twice this Spring at my pond. Beautiful bird. Jackie ~*~How do I love thee? Hang on  a second …let me Google the ways~*~     ~~ Christine Geary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I personaly have no problems with you having a PA in a dentist chair ,to me it would be one place on earth that I would think it normal to feel absolute panic.I was so tense one day at the dentist I accidently broke off the arm of my x dentists chair,this may not help much but it is nice to know you are not the only one,clean your teeth better . — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Russ, Glad you survived the dental appointment and were quick to implement the CBT.  Good job and it is very easy to et that initial thought and have it turn into a PA.  The more we learn to live with panic and anxiety the better off we are in situations like this. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.  its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future. hope everyone is doing alright russ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped :: its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. ::the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. ::its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like ::sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a ::reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so ::lucky! :: ::anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt ::on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m ::feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be ::like this in the future.   Dear Russ, I think you did a great job in getting through your panicky time! Kudos to you Next time you go to the dentist, tell him about your panic. You`ll be surprised how many dentists are quite understanding and will work with you. It helps when I tell the dentist I have an anxiety disorder because it takes the pressure off of having to hide my anxiety and physical symptoms. You can also ask the dentist to give you novacaine ‘without’ the epinephrine. Epinephrine is adrenaline and is the last thing a person with anxiety/panic needs. P.S. How are you dealing with this dreary Long Island weather? I got my first hummingbird over the weekend Jackie ~*~How do I love thee? Hang on  a second …let me Google the ways~*~     ~~ Christine Geary — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.  its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future.

Russ, I use to have panic attacks in the dentist’s chair for years before I starting taking a Xanax before going. Now I have no panic attacks at the dentist’s. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

You can also ask the dentist to give you novacaine ‘without’ the epinephrine. Epinephrine is adrenaline and is the last thing a person with anxiety/panic needs.

Does the novacaine work better if the epinephrine is in it?  If not, they what the heck is it in there for?  Is it just to make a dental visit that much worse? Dentists and clowns are scary !!!! Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what

<snip hope everyone is doing alright russ

Good job Russ!!!  The dentist can be a tough one, especially if they have all of that "stuff" on your face.  One certainly cannot go running out of the dentists with a dental dam over their mouth.  That would be a pretty funny sight. Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

You can also ask the dentist to give you novacaine ‘without’ the epinephrine. Epinephrine is adrenaline and is the last thing a person with anxiety/panic needs. Does the novacaine work better if the epinephrine is in it?

it is added to delay systemic absorption of the anesthetic particularily if the drug is a short acting one like procaine, since the space in the nerve trunk that is injected can only hold a relatively small quantity of drug the epi serves to make that quantity of drug pay out more-there are drugs avialble without epi that wear off in an hour, thee are newer drugs that last longer with out epi-but dentists like other doctors fall into habit-this is what they lernt in skool so this is what they use-unles you ask for the good stuff  If not, they what the heck is it in there for?  Is it just to make a dental visit that much worse? Dentists and clowns are scary !!!!

clown dentists are the worst Jim

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

hi jacky,  thanks for the advice. yeah, the weather is dreary indeed. we are supposed to get a few more days of this. friday’s rain is supposed to be heavy. oh well, things will be beautiful when the sun returns. glad you saw the ruby throat. i’ve been seeing and hearing all sorts of warblers out there russ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

thanks for responding all,    < well the concept that the brain has a hard time with two powerfuly <conflicting thoughts is a part of cognitive functioning but cbt would <actually have challenged the what if thought from the get go the what if thinking is definately still a factor for me. i think it is due to the severity of my past panic attacks. i started having them when i was 12, and i thought i was going crazy and never told anyone about them in fear that i would end up in a mental institution. this was the worst thing i could have done during this critical period of development. i really have fear of panic and its ‘consequences’ hardwired into my brain. <Next time make sure the anesthetic doesn’t contain epinephrine, <dentists like using that for many reasons but it can increase anxiety <for about 5-10 minutes initially until your body metabolizes it wow, i wasnt aware of that. its good to know.   thnks for the info margro….also thanks for the  clear headed perspective. <d- what if I had one? What would happen? I would certainly feel <crummy, my heart would pound, my hands sweat and I would irrationaly <feel trapped even though I am not-so what else would happen? Would it <truly be awful if I needed a few moments to stretch, compose myself or <walk about-would it be awful if I told the doc I feel like throwing up <all over him and to install temps in the holes and filll them next <week-if I confessd I had a panic disordeer would they think less of <me, would I care? good stuff. i think i may just tell them that i have PD and may have to get up for a little while. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey all,    while getting two cavities filled, i felt like i was right on the verge of having a panic attack.  it started with the thought…..what if i have a panic attack right now, right in the middle of the Dr. drilling my teeth? the thought then escalated into….then i’d have to get up, pull the suction tube and gause out of my mouth, then look like a crazy person running out of the office with holes in my teeth cause the job wasnt done.  by this time the palms started sweating, i started getting shaky and nausious(mispelled)…..it seemed immenent until i started to count backwards from 100 by 3’s which was enough to distract my mind. i learned this in CBT, and also read it a couple of times. the power of distracting the mind can really help.  its amazing to me, how much the mind(thoughts) play a role in panic. the thoughts triggered it, this wasnt some out of the blue occurance. its very similar to the interpretations of physical discomfort (like sally’s post).  panic can come out of the blue, from thoughts, or as a reaction to physical problems.  isnt that wonderful folks!   we are so lucky! anyway, i was really keyed up after getting out of the dentist’s. felt on the verge of panic on and off for the rest of the evening. but i’m feeling alright today. i hope going to the dentist isnt going to be like this in the future. hope everyone is doing alright russ

Hey Russ, I think you handled that situation *VERY* well.  Distraction works… anything that works is great.  I was going suggest what Jackie did. I didn’t know it was epinephrin, but I’ve had novacaine before that threw me into instant panic.  - I always tell the dentist to not give me the novacaine that jump starts my panic. Don’t let one bad experience turn into a phobia…that’s my advice. One bad experience is just that..one… it COULD happen again, yes. But it also MAY NOT happen again.. there is a good chance it won’t. And even if it does, you will not die and the world will not end, and you handled it the last time, and you can handle it again. I think you did very well, Russ.  That is good news and not bad. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Question:

<gently snipped ::What is up with that?  After 3 shots of liquor I finally went to sleep. :: ::What could be causing these?  More importantly how can I prevent them or ::deal with the ‘fear of an attack’ when I begin to feel them coming on?? Dear Carol Ann, Welcome to ASAPM! You mentioned not having a full blown panic attack in many years. What did you do back then when you had a panic attack? I strongly urge you to not self-medicate with someone elses valium, or alcohol. It may seem that alcohol works, but for many people it makes the anxiety worse. It could be one of many reasons why your panic has reared its ugly head. The best thing you could do for yourself is go to the doctor and have a thorough check-up and some basic bloodwork. You want to make sure that nothing physical is causing your symptoms. Some of my worse panic was caused by a thyroid disorder. If nothing physical is found, get yourself to a psych doctor for diagnosis and treatment in the form of meds and/or cognitive behavioral therapy. Panic disorder has a way of getting out of control rather quickly. Nip this in the bud early, it will prevent a lot of grief later. Jackie ~*~I`m an angel! Honest The horns are just there to keep my halo up straight~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone!  I am a 42 year old mother of a two year old. I haven’t had a full blown panic attack in quite a few years. I have had a few ’bouts’ of almost panicking in the past two years. Most recently I had an onset while driving down a deadend street.  I quickly drove out and it was gone. Then, two nites ago I was driving to my father’s country home when it started to get dark outside.  I started to feel an attack coming on, but couldn’t figure out why. Then, after being there a while, I suddenly felt my heart begin to race. I knew it was coming so I asked my father’s wife to get a valium from her mother. I put it in my pocket and drank a Bailey’s.  I was fine after I prayed and talked myself out of it. Then last nite at my own home, I was rethinking about it and suddenly the same thing hit me.  I kept thinking it’s dark outside, I need light. What is up with that?  After 3 shots of liquor I finally went to sleep. What could be causing these?  More importantly how can I prevent them or deal with the ‘fear of an attack’ when I begin to feel them coming on?? — ~Carol Ann —

I would agree with the others and tell you to get help, too.  That said, the best thing you can do with a panic attack is just let it happen and let it wash over you.  You should get a checkup, as even minor problems can cause anxiety, but assuming there is nothing wrong with you, panic attacks are more scary than dangerous. Keep us posted. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi Carol Ann, and welcome. Anticipatory anxiety caused by panic attacks is no picnic. It sounds as if you do have recurring panic disorder. It may or may not be helpful to understand what precipitates them, but it is definitely possible to cut them short and learn how to keep panic at bay. My first recommendation is that you see a psychologist and/or psychiatrist who is experienced in treating panic disorder. Cognitive behavioral therapy is extremely helpful in learning how to manage your thoughts in a panic attack and to prevent new ones.  Sometimes you may need an anti-anxiety med to help you if the problem is severe– like Xanax, Ativan, or Klonopin.  A professional can help you decide this.   I sincerely would discourage you from continuing to use alcohol to medicate away your panic. Not only is it dangerous while you’re driving, but in combination with Valium it could cause extreme impairment.  Valium would not be a first-choice anti-anxiety med for panic these days. Also, many experience "rebound panic" after the initial depressant effect of alcohol wears off, making the situation worse. If you can share with us where you live (general area), some people here might be able to recommend therapists and psychiatrists who are reliable and experienced in your form of anxiety. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone!  I am a 42 year old mother of a two year old. I haven’t had a full blown panic attack in quite a few years. I have had a few ’bouts’ of almost panicking in the past two years. Most recently I had an onset while driving down a deadend street.  I quickly drove out and it was gone. Then, two nites ago I was driving to my father’s country home when it started to get dark outside.  I started to feel an attack coming on, but couldn’t figure out why. Then, after being there a while, I suddenly felt my heart begin to race.  I knew it was coming so I asked my father’s wife to get a valium from her mother. I put it in my pocket and drank a Bailey’s.  I was fine after I prayed and talked myself out of it. Then last nite at my own home, I was rethinking about it and suddenly the same thing hit me.  I kept thinking it’s dark outside, I need light. What is up with that?  After 3 shots of liquor I finally went to sleep. What could be causing these?  More importantly how can I prevent them or deal with the ‘fear of an attack’ when I begin to feel them coming on??

I’d suggest a full physical examination by a Dr., then off to a psychiatrist.  The worst possible thing is what you are doing… self medicating with alcohol.  If you keep it up, soon when the alcohol wears off, you will have rebound anxiety… worse than it was originally.  From there things can snowball pretty fast.  Many an alcoholic was born by self medicating. Good Luck, Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone!  I am a 42 year old mother of a two year old. I haven’t had a full blown panic attack in quite a few years. I have had a few ’bouts’ of almost panicking in the past two years. Most recently I had an onset while driving down a deadend street.  I quickly drove out and it was gone. Then, two nites ago I was driving to my father’s country home when it started to get dark outside.  I started to feel an attack coming on, but couldn’t figure out why. Then, after being there a while, I suddenly felt my heart begin to race.  I knew it was coming so I asked my father’s wife to get a valium from her mother. I put it in my pocket and drank a Bailey’s.  I was fine after I prayed and talked myself out of it. Then last nite at my own home, I was rethinking about it and suddenly the same thing hit me.  I kept thinking it’s dark outside, I need light. What is up with that?  After 3 shots of liquor I finally went to sleep. What could be causing these?  More importantly how can I prevent them or deal with the ‘fear of an attack’ when I begin to feel them coming on?? — ~Carol Ann

Hi Carol Ann, Welcome to ASAPM.  I agree with Tony.. about the worst thing you can do is drink.  It may alleviate SOME anxiety initially, but the day after you drink, you’ll have anxiety that is even worse.  Then you have to drink again to get rid of it.. it’s a neverending, bad cycle to get into, and I did it myself, so I know. Definitely.. get to a psychiatrist who is qualified to treat you.  Many people with PD have panic while driving, that’s very common. I wouldn’t waste a lot of time trying to figure out WHY you panicked. I get PA’s at the moment I am losing conciousness and falling asleep. My first PA hit me when I was in a class at school. I wasn’t afraid or anything, I was sitting there taking notes, minding my own business and suddenly I went into my first full blown panic attack, for no reason I can think of. Medication prescribed by a psychiatrist is the best way to go for panic.  Good luck, and be careful with the alcohol. It’ll get you before you even know it. Welcome again. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, everyone!  I am a 42 year old mother of a two year old. I haven’t had a full blown panic attack in quite a few years. I have had a few ’bouts’ of almost panicking in the past two years. Most recently I had an onset while driving down a deadend street.  I quickly drove out and it was gone. Then, two nites ago I was driving to my father’s country home when it started to get dark outside.  I started to feel an attack coming on, but couldn’t figure out why. Then, after being there a while, I suddenly felt my heart begin to race.  I knew it was coming so I asked my father’s wife to get a valium from her mother. I put it in my pocket and drank a Bailey’s.  I was fine after I prayed and talked myself out of it. Then last nite at my own home, I was rethinking about it and suddenly the same thing hit me.  I kept thinking it’s dark outside, I need light. What is up with that?  After 3 shots of liquor I finally went to sleep. What could be causing these?  More importantly how can I prevent them or deal with the ‘fear of an attack’ when I begin to feel them coming on?? — ~Carol Ann — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Question:

I’ve been having panic attacks since college, about 30 years.  For about the first 8 years I thought I was just becoming insane and I never got a diagnosis of any mental health problem.  Stress maybe, some Freudian whooha about my mother and father.  But, not much help.  Except a relaxation tape and Sinequan. In the beginning it was like they’d never heard of someone with my symptoms, I would be handed some xanax or valium or librium or whatever by the folks on the late shift at student health, nurses that is. I spent some overnights in student health.  Got cursory interviews with a general practitioner in the morning, then I was released.   Later I followed up on a recommendation to see a well known doctor in the guidance and counseling department and he was absolutely certain he could help me when we first met.  Things about me mystified him, my symptoms just didn’t add up. I got yelled at for not getting over "it" after one too many unscheduled visits to him, despite the fact that he told me I should drop by in the early morning if I was having a difficult time. Only, he didn’t really mean for me to interrupt him so often.  He even ridiculed me for having to rush to the restroom to pee during one of our sessions, "why are you always holding on to things," he said.  At that point I was desperate and invented my own therapy, writing my way through bad times and seeking positive thoughts. Later a doctor at the local public hospital offered help using REBT, for no fee, and I turned it down because he spoke well of Dr. "get-over-it". How was I to know? A couple years later I got lucky and was referred to a stress specialist at a sports clinic my regular doctor knew about, to be trained in Progressive Muscle Relaxation.  She was a PhD in Physiology and a research associate of the developer of PMR. That alone eliminated symptoms for three years. (A warning here, every web page or handout I’ve seen on Progressive Relaxation totally butcher’s it, I don’t see how anyone can benefit from the hack job most therapists do on it).  Edmund Jacobsen who developed it wrote a book on his method of Progressive Muscle Relaxation, "You Must Relax" it’s a better place to start.   I went back to grad school and… crazy man again.  Then, got a total jerk psychiatrist, supposedly a follower of Reality Therapy who kept scolding me "I just don’t understand, what’s with you, one day you’re okay, the next you’re calling me at dinner time."  I guess he gave me his number just so I could torture him. Anyway, I went back on doxepin after I decided to spend 5 days in the psych ward making decaf, where they determined they seemed to think I needed more of a social life. But, one guy gave me xeroxes of part of one of Beck’s books.  I could practically feel my anxiety symptoms unwinding just reading them.  They really spoke to me. I took the recommendation of a counselor there and went to an eclectic therapist.  We did Jungian dream-work, Gestalt, behaviour therapy but, he was generally a real nice guy that wanted me to feel less pain and again I was off meds for two years. Then, back to college for a year and back to panic, back to doxepin and I decided to see a "real" psychoanalyst.  The "teacher" of my eclectic therapist, how could I go wrong? Just before I started seeing this Jungian Analyst (formerly a Freudian Analyst) I discovered and started to read Claire Weekes’s books.  In the beginning he encouraged me to try Weekes’s approach, after I told him that I’d been reading about it, and it worked for me, right out of her books, for 2 years. The psychoanalysis was a total mystery to me, though.  Then, he started getting annoyed because, I kept talking about how wonderful Weekes was.  He said, "where would I be without her?" in a sarcastic way.  It really pissed me off, but I didn’t tell him that.   Soon after, he interpreted a dream I’d had, and decided my "feeling side" was coming to the forefront in a psychic-storm (my dream was about a storm), and that I might have a psychotic break like he did 20 years before (okay, now there’s a detail I didn’t know about you doctor, thanks for telling me, now!) He said he’d had the same experience of discovering his feeling side (no doubt helped along by the acid he was taking on a regular basis back then, which he’d previously told me about) so, I had to be careful about "playing" with my new feeling side abilities (good old Jungian type theory).  So, I ran.  But, I owe him thanks for encouraging me to try Weekes’s approach.  If asked about recommending him all I can say is, "well, he doesn’t seem insane and he never threatened me with a gun." Then, I found a new psychiatrist who was CBT oriented with a lot of psychopharmaceuticals knowledge. Put me on Klonopin. I was doing very well.  Reading Burns’s "Feeling Good" book and acting on it.  Then he decied Klonopin’s not good so, let’s try the new SSRI’s and I had to spend weeks with the shakes cutting down from 4-5 mg a day to 0 of Klonopin and taking only Luvox.  Then we switched back to Luvox and Klonopin.  Turned out Luvox wasn’t perfect. Then, I went off the deep end about girls and bars and alcohol (okay, my fault). Then, I lost my job. I moved to another city for another job and quit drinking with Bill’s Friends.  And, now I have a 15-minute psychiatrist who’s had me on Paxil, Paxil/Klonopin, Paxil/Seroquel (hated that) and now Effexor with some clonazepam (not called Klonopin anymore). I only get results from clonazepam or xanax and writing therapy (real simple minded stuff, as in write it down you’ll feel better, not to say CBT doesn’t improve on that) and some from Progressive Relaxation.  But, my current doctor’ll be damned before she’ll let me have only clonazepam.  I have to take an antidepressant.  Preferably, something that’s new on the market (as I’ve discovered). Why are benzodiazepines treated like heroin or cocaine or something?  I can tell you Effexor is just plain bad news to try to cut back on, isn’t that addiction?  If I miss taking it for two days because I run out, I’m in hell.  Physically and mentally.  Might as well have a terrible hangover and drink lot’s of coffee. I’m thinking about learning to synthesize my own tranquilizers and screw the medical establishment.  And my doctor says, oh I’m sure you’d benefit from therapy. First therapist she recommended was handing me my head on a platter. Platitudes about stress and lectures on "Here’s why your thinking is different from other peoples…" and some generalizations about how most people don’t mind being average. Gee thanks, I’d never thought I might be different, EXCEPT I KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO HAVE NO CONFIDENCE THAT I’M SANE AT ALL. My doctor’s totally not there for me.  Out of the blue she’ll decide I need to try something new, medication wise, and give me a recommendation to try some new anti-depressant, or Seroquel, which I guess is off the market now, I’ve got to look into that. The new med is always real expensive because, it’s brand new.  I’m feeling like all doctors work this way. Should I just quit seeing psychiatrists all together and see General Practitioners?  Maybe, I could get my xanax or clonazepam from them and see about therapy at my leisure. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

yeah, i dont understand why DR’s are so benzo phobic. and its true what you said fathers delicate condition…..ssri’s are addictive also. the hypocracy is nauseating. its bad enough to suffer with panic and anxiety without having to wrestle with dr’s red tape. im wishing you the best. keep looking for a dr who isnt afraid of benzos be they pdoc or GP. russ p.s.    it must have been interesting for you to find out that your therapist had a psychotic break with reality on acid!   i guess that could be good or bad depending on the outcome. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been having panic attacks since college, about 30 years.  For about the first 8 years I thought I was just becoming insane and I never got a diagnosis of any mental health problem.  Stress maybe, some Freudian whooha about my mother and father.  But, not much help.  Except a relaxation tape and Sinequan. In the beginning it was like they’d never heard of someone with my symptoms, I would be handed some xanax or valium or librium or whatever by the folks on the late shift at student health, nurses that is. I spent some overnights in student health.  Got cursory interviews with a general practitioner in the morning, then I was released. Later I followed up on a recommendation to see a well known doctor in the guidance and counseling department and he was absolutely certain he could help me when we first met.  Things about me mystified him, my symptoms just didn’t add up. I got yelled at for not getting over "it" after one too many unscheduled visits to him, despite the fact that he told me I should drop by in the early morning if I was having a difficult time. Only, he didn’t really mean for me to interrupt him so often.  He even ridiculed me for having to rush to the restroom to pee during one of our sessions, "why are you always holding on to things," he said.  At that point I was desperate and invented my own therapy, writing my way through bad times and seeking positive thoughts. Later a doctor at the local public hospital offered help using REBT, for no fee, and I turned it down because he spoke well of Dr. "get-over-it". How was I to know? A couple years later I got lucky and was referred to a stress specialist at a sports clinic my regular doctor knew about, to be trained in Progressive Muscle Relaxation.  She was a PhD in Physiology and a research associate of the developer of PMR. That alone eliminated symptoms for three years. (A warning here, every web page or handout I’ve seen on Progressive Relaxation totally butcher’s it, I don’t see how anyone can benefit from the hack job most therapists do on it).  Edmund Jacobsen who developed it wrote a book on his method of Progressive Muscle Relaxation, "You Must Relax" it’s a better place to start. I went back to grad school and… crazy man again.  Then, got a total jerk psychiatrist, supposedly a follower of Reality Therapy who kept scolding me "I just don’t understand, what’s with you, one day you’re okay, the next you’re calling me at dinner time."  I guess he gave me his number just so I could torture him. Anyway, I went back on doxepin after I decided to spend 5 days in the psych ward making decaf, where they determined they seemed to think I needed more of a social life. But, one guy gave me xeroxes of part of one of Beck’s books.  I could practically feel my anxiety symptoms unwinding just reading them.  They really spoke to me. I took the recommendation of a counselor there and went to an eclectic therapist.  We did Jungian dream-work, Gestalt, behaviour therapy but, he was generally a real nice guy that wanted me to feel less pain and again I was off meds for two years. Then, back to college for a year and back to panic, back to doxepin and I decided to see a "real" psychoanalyst.  The "teacher" of my eclectic therapist, how could I go wrong? Just before I started seeing this Jungian Analyst (formerly a Freudian Analyst) I discovered and started to read Claire Weekes’s books.  In the beginning he encouraged me to try Weekes’s approach, after I told him that I’d been reading about it, and it worked for me, right out of her books, for 2 years. The psychoanalysis was a total mystery to me, though.  Then, he started getting annoyed because, I kept talking about how wonderful Weekes was.  He said, "where would I be without her?" in a sarcastic way.  It really pissed me off, but I didn’t tell him that. Soon after, he interpreted a dream I’d had, and decided my "feeling side" was coming to the forefront in a psychic-storm (my dream was about a storm), and that I might have a psychotic break like he did 20 years before (okay, now there’s a detail I didn’t know about you doctor, thanks for telling me, now!) He said he’d had the same experience of discovering his feeling side (no doubt helped along by the acid he was taking on a regular basis back then, which he’d previously told me about) so, I had to be careful about "playing" with my new feeling side abilities (good old Jungian type theory).  So, I ran.  But, I owe him thanks for encouraging me to try Weekes’s approach.  If asked about recommending him all I can say is, "well, he doesn’t seem insane and he never threatened me with a gun." Then, I found a new psychiatrist who was CBT oriented with a lot of psychopharmaceuticals knowledge. Put me on Klonopin. I was doing very well.  Reading Burns’s "Feeling Good" book and acting on it.  Then he decied Klonopin’s not good so, let’s try the new SSRI’s and I had to spend weeks with the shakes cutting down from 4-5 mg a day to 0 of Klonopin and taking only Luvox.  Then we switched back to Luvox and Klonopin.  Turned out Luvox wasn’t perfect. Then, I went off the deep end about girls and bars and alcohol (okay, my fault). Then, I lost my job. I moved to another city for another job and quit drinking with Bill’s Friends.  And, now I have a 15-minute psychiatrist who’s had me on Paxil, Paxil/Klonopin, Paxil/Seroquel (hated that) and now Effexor with some clonazepam (not called Klonopin anymore). I only get results from clonazepam or xanax and writing therapy (real simple minded stuff, as in write it down you’ll feel better, not to say CBT doesn’t improve on that) and some from Progressive Relaxation.  But, my current doctor’ll be damned before she’ll let me have only clonazepam.  I have to take an antidepressant.  Preferably, something that’s new on the market (as I’ve discovered). Why are benzodiazepines treated like heroin or cocaine or something?  I can tell you Effexor is just plain bad news to try to cut back on, isn’t that addiction?  If I miss taking it for two days because I run out, I’m in hell.  Physically and mentally.  Might as well have a terrible hangover and drink lot’s of coffee. I’m thinking about learning to synthesize my own tranquilizers and screw the medical establishment.  And my doctor says, oh I’m sure you’d benefit from therapy. First therapist she recommended was handing me my head on a platter. Platitudes about stress and lectures on "Here’s why your thinking is different from other peoples…" and some generalizations about how most people don’t mind being average. Gee thanks, I’d never thought I might be different, EXCEPT I KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO HAVE NO CONFIDENCE THAT I’M SANE AT ALL. My doctor’s totally not there for me.  Out of the blue she’ll decide I need to try something new, medication wise, and give me a recommendation to try some new anti-depressant, or Seroquel, which I guess is off the market now, I’ve got to look into that. The new med is always real expensive because, it’s brand new.  I’m feeling like all doctors work this way. Should I just quit seeing psychiatrists all together and see General Practitioners?  Maybe, I could get my xanax or clonazepam from them and see about therapy at my leisure.

I had the onset of panic disorder in 1966, so I’ve been through alot of the treatments (or mistreatments) you’ve been though. I’ve been on Klonopin for panic disorder for 19 years, and Zoloft and desipramine for depression for about 10 years. I think the best therapy out there is CBT. I’ve never gone through it (can’t afford to), but I have several books by Burns, Beck, and Ellis. Welcome to ASAP-M! Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hey everyone!  Thank you so much for the advice this week on the job interview.  I ended up rescheduling it for Friday and am excited to get out there and meet them. Onto the next issue… My boyfriend is very reluctant to understand what I’m going through with the panic attacks and anxiety.  He seems to think that it’s all a case of mind over matter.  I am fighting tooth and nail to communicate with him about it and try to make it more understandable, but it’s not getting me anywhere.  Can anyone give me ideas for breaking through to him?  Are there some good resources out there that he could read in his own time?  I feel very strongly that if he can’t find the willingness to understand what this is all about, the relationship is certainly not going to last. It really is true that when it rains, it pours… isn’t it?  :o) Thanks! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Onto the next issue… My boyfriend is very reluctant to understand what I’m going through with the panic attacks and anxiety.  He seems to think that it’s all a case of mind over matter.  I am fighting tooth and nail to communicate with him about it and try to make it more understandable, but it’s not getting me anywhere.  Can anyone give me ideas for breaking through to him?  Are there some good resources out there that he could read in his own time?  I feel very strongly that if he can’t find the willingness to understand what this is all about, the relationship is certainly not going to last. It really is true that when it rains, it pours… isn’t it?  :o) Thanks!

Sadly, it is pretty much impossible for someone without PA, anxiety, OCD, etc to understand them, not even a pdoc *truly* understands these disorders. I have problems with my wife at times.  Sometimes when I am depressed I am not "there" for my wife and kids the way I should be.  I want to just be in my office and do nothing.  My wife can be frustrated by this at times, which I understand.  It can be a real emotional drain on a couple if the SO is not commited to being there through the ups and downs.  Luckily for me, my wife is commited and tries very hard.  I am not the easiest man to live with : ) As far as getting him to understand?  I don’t think you ever will.  You can only get him to be accepting of it and willing to work through the ups and dowsn.  The last thing you need is a relationship where you fear the person will leave because of your illness. The closest I came to helping my wife understand a PA happened recently when we took a vacation to see here parents in SC.  My wife was driving our mini-van and a dog shot out in front of us.  She slamed the brakes and almost lost control of the car.  She said to me how it scared her, how her heart was racing…  I turned to her and told here that how she feels is similar to a PA.  That adrenaline rush, pounding heart, total fear, Fight or Flight feeling. Maybe take your BF for a car ride, tell him to look out the window and *PRETEND* you lose control of the car when he is not looking and scare him. Immediately afterwards, ask him if his heart is pounding, etc and ask him to describe how he feels.  Then tell him that those feelings are similar to a PA.  Continue and explain to him that in his case the feelings/emotions are totally legitamate since they are in response to dangerouse situation (*PRETEND*).  In the case of someone with PA, they can come out of no where for no apparent reason and can last far too long. Now continue and explain to him that since your *PRETEND* episode of losing control of the car, he became absolutely certain that every time he got any car, he *KNEW* he was going to have another one of those scary PA thingies. Even though he might not have one, he starts to fear having one.  Fearing having one can actually cause one or at least a "mild" one. I really don’t know any other way to even try to explain it to someone.  If you would have met me 11 or more years ago before I had my first PA and tried to tell me that I would get panic/anxiety/depression, I would have no way of knowing what they are really like and how the affect ones life. Best : ) Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Vanessa, How did your husband first respond to going to therapy with you?  This is something I’d love for my bf to do but I first want to find a new therapist.  My current is neo-freudian, which isn’t really helping my anxiety.  I need someone cognitive-behavioral I think. Thanks for your message, the suggestions are great! Best, Katie — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Vanessa, How did your husband first respond to going to therapy with you?  This is something I’d love for my bf to do but I first want to find a new therapist.  My current is neo-freudian, which isn’t really helping my anxiety.  I need someone cognitive-behavioral I think. Thanks for your message, the suggestions are great! Best, Katie

Hi Katie, I asked my husband (my boyfriend at the time) to accompany me to an appointment out of desperation. I was too scared to go alone. I only asked him to come and wait with me until the pdoc called me in as waiting was the hardest part. The pdoc then suggested that it might be helpful to get by hubby to stay for the appointment as my recovery was going to also involve him. Hubby was happy to stay and from that first appointment onwards we both attended sessions together. I don’t know whether therapists generally prefer this or not but in our case it worked a treat as we both got to learn all about cognitive behavioural therapy and we both knew it was not something that was going to work overnight. I found the therapy to be extremely effective long term and have had learnt to manage my condition. I have had a few relapses but I’ve overcome these with some refresher sessions. My therapist is a psychiatrist which seems rare these days but it’s important to find someone who really knows a lot about anxiety and you can get along well with. Vanessa — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Thanks, Vanessa.  I agree about finding the right doc – I need to switch.  I love the idea about your hubby going with you, I truly believe that my BF would be willing to do that.  It’s a great suggestion, thank you! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone!  Thank you so much for the advice this week on the job interview.  I ended up rescheduling it for Friday and am excited to get out there and meet them. Onto the next issue… My boyfriend is very reluctant to understand what I’m going through with the panic attacks and anxiety.  He seems to think that it’s all a case of mind over matter.  I am fighting tooth and nail to communicate with him about it and try to make it more understandable, but it’s not getting me anywhere.  Can anyone give me ideas for breaking through to him?  Are there some good resources out there that he could read in his own time?  I feel very strongly that if he can’t find the willingness to understand what this is all about, the relationship is certainly not going to last. It really is true that when it rains, it pours… isn’t it?  :o) Thanks!

This just came to me, but you might describe anxiety and panic this way. Anxiety is like having a fear of heights and being up a tall ladder. The feeling is much the same but the cause is different. Panic is like having a fear of heights and being up a tall ladder while someone is trying to push the ladder over. I don’t think that anyone that hasn’t suffered from anxiety and panic can truly understand what is going on in the head of a person that has these afflictions. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Onto the next issue… My boyfriend is very reluctant to understand what I’m going through with the panic attacks and anxiety.  He seems to think that it’s all a case of mind over matter.  I am fighting tooth and nail to communicate with him about it and try to make it more understandable, but it’s not getting me anywhere.  Can anyone give me ideas for breaking through to him?

He’s never going to understand it, cause he’s never had it. Just like you couldn’t understand….say, kidney stones…unless you had them. Explaining something (eg panic disorder) does not equal understanding it. What it seems your boyfriend is lacking is empathy for a person with a problem. And if he doesn’t have that, I don’t see how you can change him. Having empathy for another person is a sign of maturity. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone!  Thank you so much for the advice this week on the job interview.  I ended up rescheduling it for Friday and am excited to get out there and meet them. Onto the next issue… My boyfriend is very reluctant to understand what I’m going through with the panic attacks and anxiety.  He seems to think that it’s all a case of mind over matter.  I am fighting tooth and nail to communicate with him about it and try to make it more understandable, but it’s not getting me anywhere.  Can anyone give me ideas for breaking through to him?  Are there some good resources out there that he could read in his own time?  I feel very strongly that if he can’t find the willingness to understand what this is all about, the relationship is certainly not going to last. It really is true that when it rains, it pours… isn’t it?  :o) Thanks!

Hi Katie, From my experience *support* is more important and beneficial than

understanding. As others have said it is almost impossible for someone who doesn’t suffer this condition to truly understand what it’s like to have panic/anxiety including GP’s, psychologists and psychiatrists. What I found helpful was not to place too much expectation on my husband. He is there as a support, a friend, someone to talk to about the good and the bad times. But I don’t rely on him as I know I have to learn to manage this condition. There have been many times over the years that I’ve blamed him for not understanding but that’s my issue, my frustration and so easy to lash out at the one closest to you. However as your significant other, he can play a vital role in your recovery as you learn to manage your condition. Being supportive is not easy but if he truly wants to help you there are many ways that he can without having to fully understand panic/anxiety. Here a few things my husband has done for me:  - reading more about the condition to better educate himself on it.  - come along to my therapy sessions to learn practical ways to provide support.  - helps me reinforce what has been covered in therapy by reminding me about strategies I can employ.  - having a positive attitude when even I can’t seem to find one.  - distacting my mind when I’m having anticipatory anxiety.  - just being there for me when I’m having a panic attack (talking to me over the phone or offering help in person… even when I tell him there’s nothing he can do). It’s not easy to find a supportive partner but be patient with him as it’s not so easy being a support person. The tables were turned when one of my children developed a phobia of rain… despite my understanding it wasn’t easy to be patient and supportive. Vanessa — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everyone!  Thank you so much for the advice this week on the job interview.  I ended up rescheduling it for Friday and am excited to get out there and meet them. Onto the next issue… My boyfriend is very reluctant to understand what I’m going through with the panic attacks and anxiety.  He seems to think that it’s all a case of mind over matter.  I am fighting tooth and nail to communicate with him about it and try to make it more understandable, but it’s not getting me anywhere.  Can anyone give me ideas for breaking through to him?  Are there some good resources out there that he could read in his own time?  I feel very strongly that if he can’t find the willingness to understand what this is all about, the relationship is certainly not going to last. It really is true that when it rains, it pours… isn’t it?  :o) Thanks!

Hi Katie, I didn’t welcome you to the group, so I’ll do it now. I’m in the middle of a move, and not posting as regularly as usual. Jackie gave you some good resources, but I’d like to say that I suffer from several things, anxiety and panic being only two of them..and it’s very difficult for people who don’t have a disorder to understand them.  I’ve tried very hard to explain it to my family, but it’s sort of like explaining the color blue to a blind person.  I hope your BF tries to understand.  He may choose not to.  Some people think they already know something and they don’t know at all, LOL. I know a few like that. Just surround yourself with people who do understand (us) and maybe your BF will come around. I hope so. Hope he wants to. Welcome again, and you go girl! on that interview. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Thanks to all who suggested the benzo.  I’m using ativan as needed and am sure that it’s making a big difference.  I forgot to take it last night and woke up with a PA… so it must be doing something!  Needless to say, I won’t forget again.  :o)  Great suggestions from everyone!

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Thanks, Marie.  I have ativan that I can take with it if there’s too much agitation… let’s hope for the sleepiness!  :o)  It’s great to hear that you didn’t have nausea, because that is certainly the hardest part for me.  Thanks for the encouragement, hopefully it will work out.  I’ll keep you posted.

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Hey all.  I am starting Zoloft (25mg to start) and am totally freaked out about it.  I suffer from panic attacks that have caused agoraphobia from time to time.  I tried Lexapro but had violent nausea and my doc decided it was time to try Zoloft.  Does anyone have tips for how to start this?  Are mornings or evenings better?  What about the nausea? That is BY FAR the worst part for me, so any words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks!

Try 12.5 as a starting dose for two weeks or so and then up the dose in increments of 12.5 mg. *Start low, go slow* = golden rule for waning on antidepressants for people with anxiety disorders. Also: have benzo *as needed* on the side. Ginger is good for nausea. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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The ginger was a great idea and is working really well, thanks Philip! I’m using caplets and taking them as needed, it’s perfect.  What a gem you are!

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Hey all.  I am starting Zoloft (25mg to start) and am totally freaked out about it.  I suffer from panic attacks that have caused agoraphobia from time to time.  I tried Lexapro but had violent nausea and my doc decided it was time to try Zoloft.  Does anyone have tips for how to start this?  Are mornings or evenings better?  What about the nausea? That is BY FAR the worst part for me, so any words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I know this advice is not going to make you feel much better, but take it or not I agree with the poster who recommended a benzo for the first few weeks. I had a not so great experience with Zoloft, but know people IRL who sailed right through those first weeks and it works great for them. Guess it depends on your body. I’d say try not to concentrate on the fact that you MAY feel nauseas, anxious, or anything else.  You will increase your chances of feeling it if you really believe you will.  Of course do not ignore real physical symptoms.  Remember- it’s your body! Best of luck!  I hope you are one of the ones this really works for!!!!!

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Hey all.  I am starting Zoloft (25mg to start) and am totally freaked out about it.

I understand your concerns. I suffer from panic attacks that have caused agoraphobia from time to time.  I tried Lexapro but had violent nausea and my doc decided it was time to try Zoloft.  Does anyone have tips for how to start this?

I took it for Major Depression and OCD, not Panic Disorder. I had to start according to this schedule: 12.5 mg one week 25 mg one week 37.5 mg one week 50 mg two weeks 67.5 mg one week 75 mg one week 100 mg currently for four days. The only reason my schedule was slow was that for me, Zoloft was *very* stimulating and agitating.  I had a lot of jitters the first few weeks and even at 25 mg thought I was *going* to have a 100 panic attacks, even though I don’t have Panic Disorder. I still feel my arms tingling most days. The stimulation is good for a depressive and severe OCDer, but IMO not a person with Panic Disorder. You may find it sedating or not so stimulating.  If I had Panic Disorder, I would have dropped Zoloft the first week because it is very stimulating for me. I had no nausea. Sleep was choppy at first but now things are getting better. I take it in the mornings. …any words of encouragement

I hope that it does well for you. I hope you don’t find it too stimulating. If I had Panic Disorder without depression, however, I would not opt for Zoloft nor Prozac to be very honest–none in the stimulating class; maybe Paxil or just Xanax. Who knows, Zoloft may make you sleepy! Good luck!

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Hey all.  I am starting Zoloft (25mg to start) and am totally freaked out about it.  I suffer from panic attacks that have caused agoraphobia from time to time.  I tried Lexapro but had violent nausea and my doc decided it was time to try Zoloft.  Does anyone have tips for how to start this?  Are mornings or evenings better?  What about the nausea? That is BY FAR the worst part for me, so any words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks!

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I thought for some time about this, and I still can’t really decide if there is a *best* approach in terms of discussing this problem with your children. I had few grandparents (several died prior to my birth) and valued the relationships I had/have with them (one has since died).  I was made aware of things about the deceased grandparent who I knew till I was 31, and found it all very distressing, and still wish I had just never heard it, because I can’t interview any of the parties involved, as they are all deceased – making resolution not possible. Your daughter has her own relationship to this woman she has chosen to care for, and on the one hand I can see why you would not want her to wonder why you had enmity, avoidance, etc. but on the other, changing her relationship to her grandmother (which may be a very special thing to HER) somehow seems uncomfortable when I contemplate all that.  I wish I had more to offer. Gary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to post here.  I’ve read posts for a very long time and this group has really helped me. I find myself in a new situation right now, my mother has stage IV lung cancer and is dying.  My adult daughter is moving mom to her house to care for her during these last few months.   I am having a very hard time coping with having contact with my mother.  I have 4 adult children and they don’t know any details about my history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse from my mother.  I know she is dying but I’m not having any sad emotion about this.  I’m only feeling trapped about having to help care for her.   I had just come to a point in my life, with the help of a therapist, where I decided I would not have any more contact with her.    My stress and anxiety  is really messing up my life,  I am having flash back nightmares that haunt me for the entire day or longer.  I don’t want to be nice to my mother or see her.  I have not shed a tear since we found out about this cancer.  I feel like everyone thinks I’m heartless. Is anyone else in a simular situation? Thanks Dee

It was about 25 years ago with my mother’s mother.  My parent’s divorced when I was around 8.  Mom had to move in with her mother and brother.  My mom, my two sisters, and I all shared a bedroom.  Two beds.  You couldn’t walk in there. You just jumped on the bed. When my mother found a job, once she went to work it started.  The summer was the worst time.  She beat the hell out of us for things you wouldn’t believe.  I have already posted some details to Jackie here, so I won’t go into it again. I will say, it’s not wrong to be glad a mean hateful person is dead.  I wished my grandmother dead many times.  That is human.  You know how people want to think only the good of the dead.  Not me, even now.  I never shed a tear over her.  She was the most awful person I had ever met. I truly understand how you feel.  I would not go see your mother, but that is my opinion.  Do what your heart tells you. You really need to tell your kids something.  Even if it’s just a small part of it, just so they will understand. I am so sorry you are going through this.  God bless you. Vicki

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Hello Dee, I can relate to what you’re feeling. I have PTSD as a result of my father. He was psychologically and physically abusive, and what my shrink and I have defined as "psycho-sexually" abusive. It pisses me off to no end that I have to live with the flashbacks and nightmares. My father always denied being abusive to me, and I thought he was just lying outright. He might have been, but his mind was perhaps sparing him the guilt of what he did to my mother and me by blocking the memories. I don’t know which was the truth. He has ended up in a nursing home, catatonically depressed. I hear through my brother that it’s because he abruptly remembered all of the abuse, and couldn’t cope with it. He feels that he is being punished by God for what he did. It doesn’t matter to me if this is a load of crap or if it’s true, I won’t go and see him. My brother has urged me to, has said that want to see him, I don’t need to see him, and I don’t need the nightmares and flashbacks worsened in any way. I’m not heartless, I’m looking out for my own mental health. I would say that you are too. If there is ANY way that you can get out of helping care for your mother, PLEASE DO SO. You don’t need this, and it will not get better as time goes on, in my opinion. My sister knows about the abuse, my mother of course does, but my brother has never wanted to hear a word about it, and denies anything I tell him about it. I don’t know if you want your children to know anything about this……in the case of my brother, his denial only hurt me more. I suggest you talk to your therapist about this situation, and perhaps have one or more of your children come to a session. You shouldn’t have to cope with this. You can probably tell that I feel strongly about this. The only thing that helps me deal w/my PTSD is NOT seeing my father. I wish you the very best. Sincerely, Sharon

Response:

Hi Dee, I have a friend who is in a similar situation. My friend, who continues to work, has terminal cancer but has not told her mother. She does not love her mother and I understand why. Now her mother is in a nursing home. My friend deals with it by ensuring that her mothers needs are met by others. There is no emotional bond for her. Her mother is manipulative and would try to pretend there is more. My advice is to do what is best for Dee. You have said that your children do not know details about the abuse. Do they know that there was some? If so, I expect they may understand that it is important for you to look after yourself. Take care, Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, I’m new to post here.  I’ve read posts for a very long time and this group has really helped me. I find myself in a new situation right now, my mother has stage IV lung cancer and is dying.  My adult daughter is moving mom to her house to care for her during these last few months.   I am having a very hard time coping with having contact with my mother.  I have 4 adult children and they don’t know any details about my history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse from my mother.  I know she is dying but I’m not having any sad emotion about this.  I’m only feeling trapped about having to help care for her.   I had just come to a point in my life, with the help of a therapist, where I decided I would not have any more contact with her.    My stress and anxiety  is really messing up my life,  I am having flash back nightmares that haunt me for the entire day or longer.  I don’t want to be nice to my mother or see her.  I have not shed a tear since we found out about this cancer.  I feel like everyone thinks I’m heartless. Is anyone else in a simular situation? Thanks Dee

Response:

I had a relative who I realy respected and admired,it was only a year or so after his death that I found out he was a pedo I must admit I feel cheated.Although I respect my cousin and aunt and what they went through I would have loved to help them hate the low life prick and let him know how low people who ruin other peoples lives for their own gratification are .Once you reach a certain age you are responsible for what you do to others.I cant help but admire you,you are tearing your self up over not wanting to hurt your kids ,prehaps the past needs to be purged,you deserve happiness after all it wasnt you comitting these crimes regards den

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to post here.  I’ve read posts for a very long time and this group has really helped me. I find myself in a new situation right now, my mother has stage IV lung cancer and is dying.  My adult daughter is moving mom to her house to care for her during these last few months.   I am having a very hard time coping with having contact with my mother.  I have 4 adult children and they don’t know any details about my history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse from my mother.  I know she is dying but I’m not having any sad emotion about this.  I’m only feeling trapped about having to help care for her.   I had just come to a point in my life, with the help of a therapist, where I decided I would not have any more contact with her.    My stress and anxiety  is really messing up my life,  I am having flash back nightmares that haunt me for the entire day or longer.  I don’t want to be nice to my mother or see her.  I have not shed a tear since we found out about this cancer.  I feel like everyone thinks I’m heartless. Is anyone else in a simular situation?

Dearest Dee, The best thing that I can tell you is to go to Google and type in support groups+cancer+family member.  There are tons and tons of places to go and get the help that YOU need.  You’ll find others in the exact same situation you’re in.  You don’t have to feel guilty about your feelings, and w/the right support group, you’ll find ways to cope. I wish you the best. —

Question:

Is anyone using 5-htp with good results for anxiety, etc.?  Also has anyone heard or used Shankapushpi? Thanks. John

Response:

heard of it but don’t use it. i use l-theanine and it has helped me alot

Response:

heard of it but don’t use it. i use l-theanine and it has helped me alot

Thanks.  I looked it up and it looks promising.  Presently I’m about 2 weeks into the withdrawal phase after a long weaning off of Zoloft.  I tapered down to nothing over about a 3 month period and have been completely off for about 2 weeks now.  I’m still having a lot of dizziness and zaps and paranoia–I understand this can go on for about 8 weeks?  I am *not* going back on that stuff! 5htp has been helping but am looking for something long term.  I guess I have sort of a mix of anxiety/depression, post traumatic stress, and ocd from major surgery in the past.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Response:

Question:

Well, I would say first relax, though I know it’s difficult. Things are harder in the US in respect of social/public insurance. That it’s a pity, but, then again, a reality you hace to confront. I see that you are well informed and trained on how to deal with those thugs and health mercenaries. That is fantastic, if you think about it: share your knolegde with other people here who’s gettin extorted and ill used by them, That is a broader goal. On the other hand, is there no way by wich you can check a GP or any oher physician BEFORE assiting to them. Surely you can do it. I’ve heard of some Internet pages devoted to that specific proposit. You might even open your own, with that guy first on the black list. You surely can be smarter than this o another doc, but what you need to do (obviously adjusting it to your economic possibilities) is to just stick to one (the least silly of them all) and dialogate with him to end uo with an agree for a treatment of whatever ailment yoou might suffer, The psicological part you can do it yourself, with friends and books at hand -if you are fond of reading- virtually for free, Try to realise what your main problem could be, and agree a provisional solution to it, either with yourself or a doc or even a priest, Whatsoever, stick to it as a dogma for a reasonable while, even if you doubt its rightfulness, It will be plenty of tiime to change your mind once you get better. But do not think that you can go trhough everything alone, historical genius like newton suffered nervous disorders and they could not heal themselves hugely smart as they were. take an example of the well kown Prof. John Forbes Nash Jr., a math crack who suffered from OCD. it’s useful to read its ow autobiography in the Nobel’s Prize web page. he explains a bit, though circumpspiciously, who he managed to control and amelliorate his condition. You can see the movie, as well, i fyou fancy. The point is: being smart, having loads of knoledge about drugs, treatments, anathomy, neurology, whatever it’s not enough to get you better (although comprehension of your state usually helps if you don’t get too obssesed). Everybody knows that psichiatrist and psicologists are as insane as we could be! Ha ha ha! Just be patient, aware of how much time you have laying upon your way. There is no rush and no need to. Consider this trial an opportinity: once you get out, you come out as a more mature an complete person, take that for granted. Be realistic as well, you, or everybody else, could go over the whole thing again once or thrice in your life. So our task is to prepare our minds to confront those difficult situations. once you reach that somhow uthopic state (for we are all humans and these so called ‘illnessness’ are nothing but human reactions) you wouldn’t be afraid no more of yourself and the reactions of your body. Take care Jesus A.D.: … and be nice with the others round here, surely it would be more rewarding and satisfying to you.

Response:

out why. i’ve been nuthin’ but kind ta you, yanno…. and if ya wanna keep that talk up’n walk that hatin’ walk, that’s allllllllll good. but i don’t think ya really dislike me, i know i don’t dislike you. yup, i responded to ya wayyyyyyy outta character just ta maybe letcha know what it feels like ta be busted up on for no apparent reason. it ain’t muh style. so maybe you can decide either WHY ya dislike me and talk to me about it, or decide that maybe ya don’t dislike me. i sure didn’t see yer "outta left field" anger comin’, and i’m all up for considerin’ it’ah "moment". i DO think it’s be in both our best interests ta get along, donchu? after all, we ARE in this thang tagether. ’sup ta you. ya reckon? i sure hope so. ~t

Response:

I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

oh yeah… it was Listerine.  i’m sure of it.

Response:

That’s it Tanya. Another key to success (though there is no concept of failure) is to have courage. Better expressed, not to have courage, or to intend intellectually to have it, but to feel it, right just in the mouth of your stomach. And, of course, to presente upon yourself goals and hopes. We are all OK a time ago: the sooner or later we will get back to our former selves, only just being more mature, human, and complete.

Response:

That’s it Tanya. Another key to success (though there is no concept of failure) is to have courage. Better expressed, not to have courage, or to intend intellectually to have it, but to feel it, right just in the mouth of your stomach. And, of course, to presente upon yourself goals and hopes.

well, at this point all i have is the courage to have hope.   BUT i’m titratin’ off these damn things now, so i ain’t posting much.  it isn’t really my decision, it’s more my plight here in the armpit of the world, Oklahoma.  I am not fighting with the doctors or doctor wannabes anymore, i had my last fight less than an hour ago and it’s a long story, but suffice it to say, i would rather go into seizures and DIE than pay that idiot 175 bucks an hour to force me to prove i was smarter than him on my most stupid day than he will ever be on his smartest.  he offered me to come in late today, i told him i’d rather run naked with a load of dynamite strapped between my thighs through a Bic factory. Some might say that wasn’t too smart on my part, i say it was motivation. The whole conversation is quite funny when i relate it or tell it to someone else. it wasn’t at the time, and he surely didn’t think so. His ass is going into the AMA and APA archives (probably file 13) via my letter that will probably never be read, and that’s ok too.  i can be quite annoying and sometimes i make a dent in my cause just because people want me to shut up. Do you believe they wouldn’t give me his last name when i called his office????? i said "for $175 an hour for a ‘physician’s assistant’, he best be giving me that last hair he has left that’s surely making a beeline for his behind and don’t MAKE me go there and get his license plate # and look him up in public records and fine out where he lives ! so i did.   When all’s said and done, he lives 3 blocks from me.  how ironic. SUX TA BE HIM. llalalalalalala anyway, i’m gettin’ off the blues now.  it’s been 2 days. i’m very glad i’m not a terrorist. i wish i didn’t know where GIL TORRES lives. i gotta hankerin’ ta go see’f he’s got any home’grown tomatoes. GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ~t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are all OK a time ago: the sooner or later we will get back to our former selves, only just being more mature, human, and complete.

Response:

Hi everyone: I would suggest two things on this thread: First: we all should remember BZ’s,tranquilizers, antidepressants… chems in general, are only aids, not definitive cures.

they might not be cures, but for me, they’re total and complete relief.  i figure if god made the guy that made the things, they’re as viable as insulin to a diabetic and i’m NOT going to discontinue their use until i get in the mood to eliminate another of my 8 medications.  my last medication, in fact.  i’ve done all the work to know myself, from whence i come, from where my disorders originate, etc.  my therapy is done, in the big picture.  panic disorder is not an "issue" for me, but an illness.  It is an illness I will conquer when I get in the mood. I’m pretty worn out from conquering the others, and I still have a way to go in the "taking on another challenge" arena.  I’m going to get my life re-established in the "creative" and "financial" environent before i take on panic.  and I’m going to take on the psychiatric community and the medical community in synchronization with my next career move. I just HAVE to have a soap box, you know?  <wink They work for a while, but in the meantime it is useful to try (not that you MUST) to solve or undersstand the underlying problem which is leading us to take them.

My panic is physical, and inherited.  The way to my salvation from it requires a total lifestyle change that I am not ready for yet.  In the meantime, I’m going to eat benzos for breakfast, lunch, supper, and possibly "high tea". I know it is easy to say and pretty difficult to do (I do take a pretty amount of valium myself), but through my own experiencie I would positively say it is the only way to go. Please, don’t take this assesment wrong: DON’T DISCONTINUE bz’s or whatever chem you are in abrutously. There is no need to, and sometimes they are the best solution possible until circumstances change.

WOW !  You just said what I said, with much more flair.  thank you. Most people don’t understand me or care to, and discount me incredibly. I look at that, because I look at everything that effects my life.   by the same token, i totally understand what it is going to take to put the bullet in this last little slice of hell, and I will do so…. in time. Thanks, Dr. Love ! ~tanya

Response:

I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

Response:

Could it have been Klonopin (generic Clonazepam)? smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

Response:

It’s the same thing I was just prescribed since my Xanax doesn’t last as long. It’s called Klonopin……and the generic is something with a C…it’s supposed to last 12 hours in your system. Read my post titled Question for Gary. By the way, it has helped me so much I’ve never felt this good in a very long time. I am much calmer with my kids, one of which has extreme ADHD and ODD and is only 6 1/2 years old. I’m just a much "nicer" person to be around now. Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

Response:

I was just in a therapist’s office, and she suggested a drug for anxiety that is longer lasting than Xanax, which had little effect on me at my last audition (I am a singer). I thought she said Clonitin or something like it. Any ideas on what it might be?

I’m sure you mean Klonopin, a long acxting Benzodiazepine (whereas Xanax is a short acting one – although we now have Xanax XR which works for a long time). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Klonopin, Aka, in my area of the world, is Rivotril.  But in my experience over the last 10 years, it IS stronger.  I haven’t been prescribed it since I was 15.  When I needed an anti-anxiety, they would not even consider Rivotril.  I am 30 now.  My husband has been prescribed Rivotril daily and Ativan as needed for his OCD, just last week as they are now looking for how to treat  his PTSD (from the shit I put him through with my borderline personality disorder over the last 12 years).

Response:

My husband has been prescribed Rivotril daily and Ativan as needed for his OCD, just last week as they are now looking for how to treat  his PTSD (from the shit I put him through with my borderline personality disorder over the last 12 years).

that makes sense. sucking another into your average, mediocre life. blame yer borderline personality, whadda cop-out. oooooooooooooooooooh sister, let’s go down, let’s go down, c’mon down.. OOOOOOOOOH SISTER, LET’S GO DOWN….. down to tha river’n pray. <samoooooooooochalaaaaaaaaaAAALALALALAAAAAA

Response:

Hi everyone: I would suggest two things on this thread: First: we all should remember BZ’s,tranquilizers, antidepressants… chems in general, are only aids, not definitive cures. They work for a while, but in the meantime it is useful to try (not that you MUST) to solve or undersstand the underlying problem which is leading us to take them. I know it is easy to say and pretty difficult to do (I do take a pretty amount of valium myself), but through my own experiencie I would positively say it is the only way to go. Please, don’t take this assesment wrong: DON’T DISCONTINUE bz’s or whatever chem you are in abrutously. There is no need to, and sometimes they are the best solution possible until circumstances change. Second: for a detailed information about BZ’s, the best source is undoubtely the Asthon Manual, located at http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm Simple, easy to read info about almost every family of benzodiacepinic mollecules are there, as well as a pretty handy table with their half life and the lasting of their different metabolites on your body, and an aproximated compared equivalence dosage between them (but remember it is only aproximated, and every single chemical mollecule, even belonging to the same family has a wide different objective and subjective effects on yoour body, so do not switch randomly without medical advise). There are too, serious and scientifical guidelines in case you wish to withdraw or reduce dosages.

Response:

Question:

Hi Ron, I had a similar panic attack years ago. Paramedics ere called but I was not taken to hospital. Now you have a diagnosis you can treat it effectively. Good to see you. Meryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-)

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ron!  How terrifying.  I’m glad you got to the hospital and had everything checked out.  The panic attack *does* sound like heart-attack symptoms; I don’t blame you for being scared. I’m glad you’re OK now.  Crossing my fingers that you don’t have another experience like this one.  8-O xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Ron, So glad you didn’t suffer a heart attack.  I’m sure you were scared enough going through this. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. <snip What a SCARE!  Glad everything is OK! Tono

I’m glad it’s over and in my favour! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

((((((((((((Ron)))))))))))))) I’m so sorry you had to go through all of this! But YAE….you are OK!!  Everything is OK!! You are in good health, and I’m so happy for you. I hope you can relax and heal the infection and have a new outlook on life! Hugs and love, Gigglz

The darned antibiotic that I’m on upsets the stomach and when that gets going, for some reason the anxiety chimes in with a "me too" attitude and around it goes!  I was given a prescription for Alprazolan (Xanax clone)  .25mg which I had never taken before. That sure helped to "mellow out" the situation. The prescription is given as Take 1 tablet twice daily if needed. I always have problems with the "if needed" part as I tend to not take the medication figuring that the problem will pass if I just give it enough time. Anyway, it is going to work itself out eventually. ((((((((Gigglz))))))))) — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Ron, So glad you didn’t suffer a heart attack.  I’m sure you were scared enough going through this. smiles, Elise

Thank you Elise. For the most part the fear was one of resigned helplessness. I am still tired a bit but feeling fine now. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ron!  How terrifying.  I’m glad you got to the hospital and had everything checked out.  The panic attack *does* sound like heart-attack symptoms; I don’t blame you for being scared. I’m glad you’re OK now.  Crossing my fingers that you don’t have another experience like this one.  8-O

The attack was "real enough" that the doctors took a while to actually rule out a heart attack after arriving at the hospital. I’m glad that they were thorough in their examination. It sure takes a load off the mind. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) Ron, I know only too well how it feels to get a "no cancer" report.  I am so very happy you got that news. I had a panic attack once that I didn’t recognize as panic and called the squad too.  My arms and legs went numb and I had that tightness and pressure on my chest.  At least they took you to the hospital and checked you out!  The medics just took my BP and listened to my heart and told me it was panic.  I don’t know how they could say that for sure without an EKG but they did. Anyway…neither you nor I died!! YEAH!! That IS the goal.  I’m so glad that was panic and not a heart attack you had.  You’ve had a rough week.  Take some down time and relax.  Do some fun things.  Try to shake off all that trauma. I’m so glad you are all right. Sally

I’m glad that your experience turned out to be panic and not a heart attack. The docs took a pile of blood from me for blood work upon arrival at the hospital and then in the morning, repeated the whole thing to make extra sure that they "had it right." I’m going to take it easy today and get rested up. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ((((((((((((Ron)))))))))))))) I’m so sorry you had to go through all of this! But YAE….you are OK!!  Everything is OK!! You are in good health, and I’m so happy for you. I hope you can relax and heal the infection and have a new outlook on life! Hugs and love, Gigglz The darned antibiotic that I’m on upsets the stomach and when that gets going, for some reason the anxiety chimes in with a "me too" attitude and around it goes!  I was given a prescription for Alprazolan (Xanax clone)  .25mg which I had never taken before. That sure helped to "mellow out" the situation. The prescription is given as Take 1 tablet twice daily if needed. I always have problems with the "if needed" part as I tend to not take the medication figuring that the problem will pass if I just give it enough time. Anyway, it is going to work itself out eventually. ((((((((Gigglz))))))))) — Ron P

Antibiotics just kill my stomach, Ron.  I hope you feel better real soon. {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of.

Yaay! *RELIEF*! Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah!

The notorious "heart attack"…. it’s very good to know that your heart is fine. (I always felt you were good-hearted). Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of.

<snip What a SCARE!  Glad everything is OK! Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-)

Ron, I know only too well how it feels to get a "no cancer" report.  I am so very happy you got that news. I had a panic attack once that I didn’t recognize as panic and called the squad too.  My arms and legs went numb and I had that tightness and pressure on my chest.  At least they took you to the hospital and checked you out!  The medics just took my BP and listened to my heart and told me it was panic.  I don’t know how they could say that for sure without an EKG but they did. Anyway…neither you nor I died!! YEAH!! That IS the goal.  I’m so glad that was panic and not a heart attack you had.  You’ve had a rough week.  Take some down time and relax.  Do some fun things.  Try to shake off all that trauma. I’m so glad you are all right. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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Hi Ron, I had a similar panic attack years ago. Paramedics ere called but I was not taken to hospital. Now you have a diagnosis you can treat it effectively. Good to see you. Meryl

True. I certainly don’t want to repeat that. I hope that I have learned from it. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Yaay! *RELIEF*!

That ultrasound is something else I can tell you. It is akin to an attack by a slippery blunt instrument! "Down there" I don’t want to be attacked by anything<:-/ Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! The notorious "heart attack"…. it’s very good to know that your heart is fine. (I always felt you were good-hearted). Philip

Only the good die young, or so it is said….at 59, I’m not young any more<;-{ — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

OMG Ron!  I am so sorry this happened to you.  I had no idea.  I am sure you were very scared.  I know I would be.  Thank goodness you now know you are in fine physical health.  Those panic attacks come in all sorts of sneaky ways.  I would have thought and done the same thing you did and I am glad you did it because it could have been a heart attack.  You never know.  It’s best to get checked out and know for sure.  What an ordeal for you.  I hope you are taking your Xanax and resting right now.  You need to. I am glad you are ok. Vicki

Thank you Vicki. Even though it all worked out well, the doctors told me that if I get another attack like this to take a Xanax at the first sign or as soon as I notice something not right and if it doesn’t get better to call them without delay. Although unpleasant and scary to go through, a lot of good information (for my own peace of mind) was obtained. I am feeling a bit tired so will temper any enthusiasm for activities so as to not dig a hole that I can’t get out of easily<;-) — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m glad you’re OK, Ron. I’ve only been to the ER once for a panic attack. And that was about the time my panic disorder started. I felt like something was terribly wrong (impending doom), but I didn’t know what. Soon as the doc put a stethoscope up to my heart, all my anxiety went away. That was strange. He told my mother that my imagination was "too strong"  ;) That was about 1966. Chip

Thanks Chip.  These panic attacks that feel like heart attacks can really give that feeling of "impending doom" can’t they. I’m so glad that you too didn’t have a heart attack. The first time that a doctor checked me out when I thought that I was having a heart attack (1978?), and had an overwhelming sense of "impending doom" just like you described. I had the same reaction that you did. It was stethoscope on, anxiety gone. Don’t we all wish that panic attacks were just "strong imagination." — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Whew, what a relief is right, Ron!  So glad you feel better about your health now.  I’m glad it wasn’t a heart attack.  I hope the med helps you and you feel much better soon.  {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P

OMG Ron!  I am so sorry this happened to you.  I had no idea.  I am sure you were very scared.  I know I would be.  Thank goodness you now know you are in fine physical health.  Those panic attacks come in all sorts of sneaky ways.  I would have thought and done the same thing you did and I am glad you did it because it could have been a heart attack.  You never know.  It’s best to get checked out and know for sure.  What an ordeal for you.  I hope you are taking your Xanax and resting right now.  You need to. I am glad you are ok. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P

Thank God you didn’t have a heart attack! I am sure you were scared through the ordeal, however as you said you now know your health and can use the experience for growth . Best, Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ron, *that’s* a panic attack, holy crap. Those are the worst. It only happened to me once, and that was enough. It’s nice that you got some test results back and found out you’re in good health. That must be a load off your mind. Ian — http://sundry.ws — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thank God you didn’t have a heart attack! I am sure you were scared through the ordeal, however as you said you now know your health and can use the experience for growth . Best, Jim

Right now the relief felt is impossible to describe other than its better than winning the lottery. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ron, *that’s* a panic attack, holy crap. Those are the worst. It only happened to me once, and that was enough. It’s nice that you got some test results back and found out you’re in good health. That must be a load off your mind. Ian — http://sundry.ws

Ian, it had been a few years since I had had a panic attack of any consequence. The previous attacks were always when I actually at that moment felt very anxious. Then they would just knock me off my feet suddenly. This took so long to develop it had me convinced that it wasn’t a panic attack. It took the doctors an equal amount of time to decide that it wasn’t a heart attack so, I got the "full treatment" and not just a "well it’s a panic attack." The response time of the paramedics was fantastic as was their treatment of me. The treatment that I received from beginning to — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) end was very impressive. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Whew, what a relief is right, Ron!  So glad you feel better about your health now.  I’m glad it wasn’t a heart attack.  I hope the med helps you and you feel much better soon.  {{{{{Ron}}}}} Di

Today, I am feeling pretty darned good<:-)  I am going to have to figure out when exactly I need the Xanax and when I don’t as I don’t want to be "on it" all the time. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m glad you’re OK, Ron. I’ve only been to the ER once for a panic attack. And that was about the time my panic disorder started. I felt like something was terribly wrong (impending doom), but I didn’t know what. Soon as the doc put a stethoscope up to my heart, all my anxiety went away. That was strange. He told my mother that my imagination was "too strong"  ;) That was about 1966. Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ultrasound results showed now hernia, no cancer and only a minor though sore non communicable infection that is being taken care of. Was taken to the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday with suspected heart attack. The hospital doctors ran all the tests, kept me overnight in the ICU and declared that I had had a panic attack and that everything was ok. No heart or lung problems….yeah! Now, if the antibiotic didn’t make me feel like crap, I would be in pretty good shape for the shape that I’m in<;-) This panic attack was completely different from any other that I have had. I had felt under a lot of stress in the weeks leading up to this event but not anything greater this night. It started very slowly while watching tv after supper. An icy chill started in my legs. I got to feeling warm with the aid of a blanket and hot pack, but my feet tingled. I then experience tingling in my hands and had a wicked headache. Then heaviness came across my chest and just sat there like a 10 pound bag of flour. I felt as week as I have ever experienced. It was time to call the doctor. An ambulance was dispatched and I was then treated as having a heart attack. This whole process from onset to calling the doctor was roughly 3 hours. This was quite the "experience" and one that I hope not to repeat but I am the better because of it. I know that I have a good heart, my blood pressure and cholesterol are very good with the aid of medication and my lungs are good as shown in the X-Rays which were taken. There is no "poor me" involved as I feel a whole lot better about my physical self now than I have in quite a while. When I learn when to use the Xanax that the hospital doc prescribed, I should be A ok. Now there are over 200 messages to read…yikes! — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response: